What grade should a collector expect from a modern mint collectible coin?
Weiss
Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
It's apparently my month to be a contrarian at CU 
I've always assumed that a modern mint uncirculated collectible coin, ordered and received directly from the Mint, should be anywhere from about a 67 to a 70.
65 is "gem" to this old collector, so anything better than "gem +", if you will, seems fair.
I'd be a little disappointed but understanding with a 67, satisfied with a 68, and figured I'm ahead of the game with a 69 or 70.
But I get the distinct impression that the flipp... uh, the collectors here expect a 70 on every piece or they want their money back.
Do some people have unrealistic expectations for a modern factory product, or is a 70 every coin, every time a legitimate expectation from the mint?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
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Yes, no.
Given that they are handled specially, I think 68 or up. But I agree with you. Expecting every one to be a 70 is unrealistic.
They could ship all 70s, but nobody would be willing to pay what it costs to do it.
They should all be 70s and sell for spot.
With free shipping.
69-70 or the Mint should do something about their QC programs.
When it comes to $100/toz silver
And
This is the USA
I expect some pride of craftsmanship and enough margin to produce nearly all 70s
Going for gold, pt, pd even moreso
69 or 70. Frankly, how many of us can spot the difference?
I should add I think proofs should be higher out of the gate. Maybe a 68 absolute minimum and probably a 69 or 70.
--Severian the Lame
The quality from the US mint should meet or exceed the quality from other world mints. IMO, that should be 69/70 with NO quality issues like small strike-throughs or poorly struck examples.
I think it is realistic to expect silver coins made as “non intended for circulation” collectibles to be 69s, 70s or spotted.
Mr_Spud
With special handling MS 69 or MS 70 should be a given.
Yup. If I’m paying $85 for about an oz. of silver. I expect 70’s. I understand a few 69’s. I don’t see any disclaimer from the mint saying expect scratches, spots , dings or less than highest quality.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
68 would be what I would expect.
$85 for ~.85 toz
when submitted in mint capsule that has not been opened, anything less than a 69 is unacceptable.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Yes indeed. Noted “about an oz.”. Didn’t realize it was that much, yikes 😬
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
If it is from the RCM, Perth or Austrian mints, no lower than MS/PR 69.
Demonstrably false.
https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/1-dollar-1992-date/5113
It didn’t come from the mint that way. Who knows how it was handled, put in an album, etc.
Those mints take pride in their work, unlike the US mints now.
Pick and choose from decades ago
Based on modern PCGS MS graded silver eagles, about 50% 70's, 44% 69's, 5% 68's, and 1% lower grades. Of course since these pops are skewed by minimum grade 70's that don't count non-slabbed coins in these numbers, or other lower quality coins not even sent in, the 50% 70 number is really quite a bit lower.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
69 or 70 for items made only for sale to collectors. Things like business strike bullion coins would have lower expectations.
Proofs are not much different, but the majority of the coins to expect are 69's. I usually figure 30-40% of what to expect are 70's.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Expect a 70 but don't be disappointed with a 69.
Proof silver commemoratives indicate the lower only 20% 70 result like what I see in the 2021 Morgan's recently..
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Expect a 69 and be happy with a 70
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
You can ignore the data, but that looks a lot like the ASE grade distribution.
I just had an original Britannia gold 4 coin set. Still in original capsules. 2 of the coins had hairline.
The Morgan problems are highly unusual for the US Mint whose quality is usually at least as good as any commonwealth mint. In my humble opinion.
That's deceptive because of the earlier issues. Look at the last 10 years, you'll see over 50% 70s and over 90% 69/70
Much harder to get a 70 on a 1984 Olympic $ than an Apollo $
when looking at pop reports keep in mind that coins are not submitted without first being screened to remove the possible 68's and lower.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Morgans aren't proof, by the way. Why not look at MS commems.
For a modern mint specialty product like the Morgan and Peace and commemoratives: all should be 68 and up IMO.
I wonder if the mint intentionally or via policy simply doesn't emphasize flawless quality standards on non-proof coins.
Maybe to them, uncirculated is uncirculated. Collectors want flawless quality? That's what proofs are for. You want an example of an uncirculated coin---NCLT or not--you get an uncirculated coin, whatever high 60 grade that is.
--Severian the Lame
These are MS commems:
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Not bullion ASEs which are submitted in monster boxes
I expect 69's and 70's for coins produced for collectors.
Bullion coins should be in the 65-68 range.
Quality control "Statistical Process Control" should be .9995% or better.
We should never receive coins as we have with the Morgan / Peace dollar releases.
There is no excuse for poor, damaged and spotted blanks being used.
The mint should reconsidered where they purchase their blanks from.
When you start with crap, you end up with crap.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Yes, recent years quality improved in general, and more bulk submission dealers also started asking for only 70's and searching coins before they send them in, so more recent year pop reports are overstating 70's compared with what you will expect to get from the mint. The advance release Morgan's pop report showed 100% 70's. LOL
The data is not that deceptive because the OP asked about modern mint collectables so I presented totals for all modern MS and PR silver eagles and commemoratives which is a large group of modern collectables.
The recent 2021 silver dollars that I have seen are going to be much worse than "over 50% 70's". and they are within the last 10 years
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
@Goldminers
Thanks for the "Grade Charts".
Found them to be very informative as to what the mint is actually producing in grades.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
And they are exceptional compared to recent Mint products.
I buy hundreds of commems per year. I have only had a few coins before that would ever have graded less than 69 and they were likely 68s.
I've handled over 100 Morgans so far. I bet you will still get 50% 70s and 25% 69s. What is unusual is the number of 68s and below. I still haven't seen anything below a 66 or 67.
If you could find an MS65 commemorative shipped from the Mint in the last 10 years, you would have a tremendous rarity, probably unique.
Just trying to help you get to 21,000 posts today
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Lol
The average grade coming out of both the major houses is MS69+, This should give you an idea how many modern coins they grade to bump this average so high.
OP specified "modern mint uncirculated collectible coin, ordered and received directly from the Mint." Monster box bullion coins do not fall into that category. While you are 98% correct (not all submitted ASEs are in monster boxes) my comments were directed at the discussion started by the OP.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
The point is that you can see the statistics on the ASEs and they should be BETTER for the commems which are handled better.
And ASEs show 3.95 million graded, 1.97 million 70s, 1.74 million 69s. 0.23 million 68s and 20,000 less than 68. That puts mint quality since 1986 at roughly 50% 70s, 45% 69s, 5% 68s and less than 0.1% below 68.
In recent years pop reports are dominated by min grade 70 submissions.
Before that, you’ve got pre-sort for possible 70s
Pop reports don’t necessarily indicate issue quality.
For modern mint issues they are better at indicating submitter's grading skills or for sealed bulk submissions, his decision to specify a min. grade.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
I’m not a collector of ultra moderns, but the predominant market view seems to be MS/PF70 or bust. MS/PF69s are treated by many as the leftovers. Anything below is treated as a problem coin unless it is an error or nice toner.
For proof coins, or special issue coins, directly from the Mint, I expect 70's - at worst, a 69. Those are special coins, priced as such, and should be inspected and treated that way. Cheers, RickO