Newp 1861 $20 Lib DE - Future Crossover?
DeplorableDan
Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭✭✭
I needed a Type 1 Liberty for my type set, and I saw that typically, it was harder to find one with good eye appeal in my price range. I saw this one and I immediately was drawn to it. Utilizing advice given to me by other members, I made sure to call GC and ask for an in hand review of this coin, as well. Comparing to others in the same grade, I really believe this is a nice AU-58. Its got a nice color, strong degree of luster, isn't too "dirty" looking, and has few distracting contact marks.
Negatives - Coin has a deeper hit to the right of the date, a small (but not off-putting) spot at 11 o'clock on the obverse, Its got a weak strike on the reverse that can be seen in the GreatCollections photo if you look at top right of the rim. The only thing that's not obvious is that it has small hairlines on the obverse that are hard to see in the photos - which was disclosed to me upon my call to GC.
Due to the fact that it came from a major auction house, I'm assuming that the coin has made a trip to JA, but I could be 100% wrong. I've compared this coin to others in this grade, both stickered and non stickered, and in my eyes this one is one of the most appealing. I like this coin, Id like it more if it was in a PCGS holder, and Id love it if it was stickered in a PCGS Holder.
My plan is to try to cross this over at some point, perhaps when the turnaround times settle down, and try to send to CAC again. I guess Id like to know everyone's opinion on what might hold it back from from either of those things. Give me your honest, unadulterated opinion. You wont hurt my feelings. Participating in this forum has taught me so much I never knew before, simply because of the knowledge and opinions of everyone here.
Below are pictures I took with an iPhone 13 pro, the lighting is not great but I think they're not bad. The one picture with the glare and the harsh angle is to try to show the hairlines. Thanks for any and all input!
Here are the GC Photos:
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1066532/1861-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-NGC-AU-58
And here are other coins of the same year and grade, all with CAC stickers.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/676563/1861-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-Shipwreck-SS-Republic-NGC-AU-58-CAC
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/333919/1861-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-PCGS-AU-58-CAC
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/621552/1861-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-NGC-AU-58-CAC
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/670974/1861-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-NGC-AU-58-CAC-OH
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Comments
Nice coin; AU 58 has a bag mark. Nice Coin
Assume nothing.
Very nice coin! Great Collections typically wont send coins to CAC unless the seller instructs them too.
Nice coin. I’d leave it. Doesn’t need anything else to convince me it’s a 58.
Real nice AU58! A big point you made that others can learn from is that GC and some other auction houses (like Heritage), are willing to provide at no charge unbiased comments on the coin in hand. All one has to do is call! Despite today’s technology of high resolution photography, looking at a coin in hand is often different than the photos in certain aspects. This unbiased advice is invaluable!
Congrats on being high bidder on a lovely coin. Keep us updated, regardless of the outcome. I suggest first sending it to CAC. I may be wrong, but if it succeeds in getting a CAC, that might be a psychological boost in your favor for a crossover. However, the coin speaks for itself, and if it does CAC as an NGC, it could legitimately be argued that since it’s solid for the grade, with surfaces that have not been messed with, it would have crossed anyway even if you had not first sent it to CAC. If you do send it to CAC first and it passes, keep the detailed paper trail for when you send the PCGS holder back to CAC, as that might make it a bit easier to get the CAC again. (A lot of “might”s).
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Would it be worth the money to CAC it?
I have 3 liberty 20s myself that I want to get graded. Had them for 20 years.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Well I got this one around 3k. That one shipwreck stickered coin sold for 4500. Cac guide is like 3900 for this coin, and I’m sure it would at least increase the value by 500 or more from my purchase price. Pcgs Cac gold has been selling for over guide value frequently.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
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Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Not that it matters, but there are 1,517 1861’s graded AU58 (447 by PCGS and 1,070 by NGC), but only 145 of those 1,517 have a CAC. Like it or not, the demand for CAC’d coins, especially gold coins with CAC’s, is what generates that pricing differential.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Very nice coin.... I have no idea if it will get a sticker, make your decision on cost vs. gain. Good luck, and let us know what happens. Cheers, RickO
That coin looks just fine in its current home.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I don't mind the flavor of plastic the coin currently resides in, and I think it was accurately graded.
Beautiful piece... Congrats!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
This is an interesting coin. The first obverse coin photo makes me think 55 but the slab photo lower looks like a 58 to me.
Sticker and slab decisions should be made based on cost versus potential gain. It's business.
Correct, but I would add the intangibles - if it does get a CAC, even if the potential gain is not too large (or none at all), coins with CAC's sell easier, and at a better shot of obtaining "fair value" when sold by the collector or his/her heirs down the road. There's "value' to that!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Nice Pictures!
The I-phone cameras are getting so much better.
At least go for the crossover as it seems that you really want to see it in a PCGS holder.
Let us know if you do.
It is a beautiful coin.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Nice coin! I was eyeballing that one myself.
I edited to add some pics standing in my bathroom coin in hand. Still not great but you can see some detail.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Got beaned on my first try, this is my first cac I got on my own so I’m pretty happy with my decision to buy this one. I was going to cross over but decided on sending as is, and voila.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Good job. I would keep it just like it is right now.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
You did very well with that gold. A very affordable Civil War unc $20.
You also had great timing on your purchase. From my limited experience, that coin has moved north 15-20%+ since October.
IMHO,
A) Just as the state qtr program funnelled a lot of people into collectng coins.
b) the people who are buying generic gold by the bucket full right now(some blindly) with their excess liquidity will eventually take some profits and will look to purchase gold like the one you have therefore driving older gold to the moon.
I have a very uninformed opinion on Type I's but from my estimation on newer pre33 gold...prices have climbed $1,000 per coin since when you bought that coin.
@DeplorableDan , congratulations! I’m VERY happy for you! Thanks for keeping us updated from October!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Great looking coin. Looks fine the way it is now.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.