Discovered a Landis Studios mule strike . . . !

ZoidMeister

Yesterday I was cataloging a few Landis Studios pieces I've bought over the past month or four and came across one piece that gave me pause. It was one of those "which of these is not like the other" moments.

I wanted to get my ducks in a row before presenting this piece, but I believe this one silver high relief Indian Head / Buffalo tribute piece is a mule die paring.

I am not sure how many others are out there, but of the several pieces I have, this is the only one I have found.

What makes it a "mule?"

According to Landis Studios website, the Silver Indian Head Tribute pieces are dated 1913. The GOLD Indian Head Tribute pieces are dated 1912.
.

.


.

.
ONE of the several silver tribute strikes I have is in fact dated 1912. It looks like the obverse die from the GOLD strikes was used to strike this SILVER piece.
.

.

.

.

Maybe I get excited too easily, but this is the stuff exonumismatists dreams are made of . . . .

Your thoughts?

Z

@coinsarefun @zoins @LindyS @CDBPDX

coinsarefun

My brain is way to messed up still as it took my three hours to add the fe items I took in yesterday but I would say you have something there!!!!

WAYNEAS

Nice.
Wayne

ricko

Wow...Interesting find.... Probably more out there, but maybe - just maybe - one of a kind. Cheers, RickO

ZoidMeister

@ricko said:
Wow...Interesting find.... Probably more out there, but maybe - just maybe - one of a kind. Cheers, RickO

.
It was one of the more recent pieces I received.

Z

CaptHenway

Are the reverses of the gold and silver strikes the same? I can't tell from the tiny pictures.

If so, then wouldn't this be an off-metal strike of the 1912 dies?

ZoidMeister

@CaptHenway said:
Are the reverses of the gold and silver strikes the same? I can't tell from the tiny pictures.

If so, then wouldn't this be an off-metal strike of the 1912 dies?

.
No, the reverse is correct on my piece. It looks like this.
.

.

.

.
The reverse on the gold actually states .999 FINE GOLD.
.

.

.

z

ZoidMeister

I do have to say that these Buffalo Tribute pieces are exceedingly well struck. The planchets are THICK and the surfaces are mirror-like.

I need to order a couple more to see3 if I can get a second example . . . . .

Man, to get a true "off-metal" piece with both gold dies struck onto a silver planchet . . . .?

That would be quite insane.

Z

LukeMarshall

I just got a “silver nickel” from them and will examine it more closely and post a picture later

CaptHenway

Got ys. That was not obvious from the above.

ZoidMeister

@CaptHenway said:
Got ys. That was not obvious from the above.

.

I'm thinking an off metal would be way more significant than a mule.

I would LOVE to have something like that, unless of course if I PAID for a gold and got a silver . . . . .

Z

CDBPDX

@ZoidMeister said:
Yesterday I was cataloging a few Landis Studios pieces I've bought over the past month or four and came across one piece that gave me pause. It was one of those "which of these is not like the other" moments.

I wanted to get my ducks in a row before presenting this piece, but I believe this one silver high relief Indian Head / Buffalo tribute piece is a mule die paring.

I am not sure how many others are out there, but of the several pieces I have, this is the only one I have found.

What makes it a "mule?"

According to Landis Studios website, the Silver Indian Head Tribute pieces are dated 1913. The GOLD Indian Head Tribute pieces are dated 1912.

@coinsarefun @zoins @LindyS @CDBPDX

Excellent observation! Need to have Ron Landis confirm the erroneous die pairing. It is likely that once the dies were installed and the press was set up that more than one was struck. There is a good possibility that more of them are out there and this is the discovery piece! Cool!

Jzyskowski1

I think I have one? Yes ?

ZoidMeister

@Jzyskowski1 said:
I think I have one? Yes ?

.
Yes, that's definitely one .

Z

Jzyskowski1

Both my overstrike and my silver appear to be 1912 dates

pcgscacgold

So I have to ask, does anyone have one with a 1913 date? Maybe the Mint photo is wrong. So far, here and on CoinTalk, I have only seen 1912's (unless I missed a post along the way).

Jzyskowski1

There are 2 pictures from the Landis website above. They have 1913. Not sure what your question is.

pcgscacgold

@Jzyskowski1 said:
There are 2 pictures from the Landis website above. They have 1913. Not sure what your question is.

So far I have only seen collectors post 1912 versions of the coin. I was asking if anyone owns one that is 1913 as in the photo from Landis. Maybe their photo is incorrect and there are no 1913s. Was just asking if someone has one with the 1913 date in hand.

Jzyskowski1

Sorry. Only on my first cup o Joe I understand and that’s a very interesting question. I have some time this afternoon. If we don’t have a answer by then I’ll try calling. 😉

ZoidMeister

@pcgscacgold said:

@Jzyskowski1 said:
There are 2 pictures from the Landis website above. They have 1913. Not sure what your question is.

So far I have only seen collectors post 1912 versions of the coin. I was asking if anyone owns one that is 1913 as in the photo from Landis. Maybe their photo is incorrect and there are no 1913s. Was just asking if someone has one with the 1913 date in hand.

.

.

The reason I raised the question is that I only have one 1912 dated coin. The rest of mine, both silver and overstruck are 1913 dated.

Z
.

.
1913 dated 1/4 oz Silver Buffalo Tributes
.

.

.
1913 dated nickel overstrikes

The bottom two are struck over Buffalo nickels, the top four are struck over Jefferson nickels.

You can see the underlying host coins best in the reverse photo of the top two. The reverse on the left you can see Monticello, the reverse on the right you can see the reverse of the 2005 Westward Journey Jefferson. Both of those are dated 1913 as well.
.

.

pcgscacgold

@ZoidMeister Thanks. Those are really neat looking. I wish they were still for sale on the site.

ZoidMeister

They are all there except for the Buffalo nickel overstrikes. Keep scrolling down to the bottom of the Art Medals page. Some items only show up when you scroll.

pcgscacgold

@ZoidMeister said:
They are all there except for the Buffalo nickel overstrikes. Keep scrolling down to the bottom of the Art Medals page. Some items only show up when you scroll.

I was in the wrong place. I was looking at the vintage stock and the concept dollars. Now I found them, and the gold one. Thanks.

LukeMarshall

I have a 1912 silver nickel.

Also my Buffalo overstrikes are all 1912

ZoidMeister

So it's beginning to look like the 1913 dated pieces are the "rare" ones?

I think I have half a dozen more that are still in their original flips. I need to get those out and inspect their dates.

Z

Jzyskowski1

Being as I am very new to the club, I hope someone at their mint will see this and help out.
Either way Zoid looks like you have some of each! Cool 😎

pcgscacgold

Very interesting stuff. On the fence about ordering the gold Buffalo tribute and some of the silver High Relief tribute pieces.

Jzyskowski1

@pcgscacgold said:
Very interesting stuff. On the fence about ordering the gold Buffalo tribute and some of the silver High Relief tribute pieces.

Get a silver and an over strike. They are really nice. If they speak to you then if you can you will probably add the gold. 😉

Jzyskowski1

Its Monday. Didn’t get a chance to call them about the nickel. Anyone else. ?

ZoidMeister

I discussed this with Ron late last week. It seems the 1913 dated die broke and they have been using the gold 1912 dated die since then.

I am guessing the die breakage precipitated and coincided with the discontinuation of the Jefferson nickel overstrikes. Maybe the modern nickel planchets are harder than their Buffalo nickel counterpart?

Ron thanked me for being observant and reminding him that die needed to be replaced .

Z

Jzyskowski1

Thanks. Hey by the way. You guys all know each other and I suspect work together. The more I read the more I am humbled to be able to learn from you directly. Getting ready for my next order. So many choices 😉

ZoidMeister

I don't think I've ever met anyone from this forum.

In fact, I think there might be some kind of "double secret" restraining order out there somewhere that prevents that.

Small children run in fear and dogs cower everywhere at the mention of my name . . . . .

https://youtu.be/bps5hJ5DQDw