2021 Morgan vs. 1886 Morgan: A side by side. By side.

Weiss

2021 CC Morgan v. 1886 P Morgan

asheland

Pretty cool! I'm looking forward to seeing my Peace dollars!

AMRC

If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

BipolarExpress

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

And yet the 2021 still looks like a rendering in comparison to the 1886.

(Now get off my lawn)

messydesk

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

Weiss

@BipolarExpress said:

And yet the 2021 still looks like a rendering in comparison to the 1886.

(Now get off my lawn)

Unfortunately and somewhat ironically, I picked up several dozen mid-range raw unc Morgans over the years but specifically avoided 1921s because they were too common. I know the 1921s were slightly different than the other business strikes in the series. Perhaps someone with a raw unc 1921 and a 2021 can post images. That'd be a better side by side.

I'm not a huge fan of this flat grey specimen finish the mint imposes on all modern silver coins. I think it's one of the reasons few of them ever catch fire. They are technically flawless and where else you gonna find an MS68 or MS69 Morgan for a few hundred dollars. But they lack luster and cartwheel. And that's kind of a primal coin collectory thing.

I think cameo proofs would be an interesting finish. The ultimate prooflike Morgan.

BipolarExpress

Well stated. Modern US mint silver is just... lifeless.

BillJones

Here is the only 1921 Morgan Dollar that I have, a 1921-D. This is part of an "all mints" set in a Capital Plastics holder.

pmh1nic

@messydesk said:

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

I agree. All the detail of the 1886 was achieved by hand. Once you made that cut there was no going back, unlike design create on a computer. Of course that gives us all the different varieties we have and what makes collecting Morgan Dollars so interesting.

asheland

1886’s can be pretty:

asheland

I actually want a 1921, but in high grade, 65 or better. Some of them are frosty and quite attractive.

TurtleCat

It’s a good comparison. I think what I feel is that the 2021 series is more “perfect” where the flaws of the original look give it a bit more character. Then add in the color difference of 90% silver and the surface differences (non satin) and there’s just enough to keep me from loving the 2021s.

I’ll be curious to see a comparison with the 2021 Peace as well. That was the one I was most considering but missed out on.

Che_Grapes

I really wish they would have used the same surface as the originals or even the 1921 Morgan - which they could have done. Under a loupe the 2021s have some luster but they don’t hardly cartwheel and it just looks like a burnished ASE to me. I was really hoping they would try and mimic the true Morgan luster and also the high relief peace - which was also not the case for 2021s (or so I’m told, mine still coming)

jmlanzaf

@pmh1nic said:

@messydesk said:

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

I agree. All the detail of the 1886 was achieved by hand. Once you made that cut there was no going back, unlike design create on a computer. Of course that gives us all the different varieties we have and what makes collecting Morgan Dollars so interesting.

Not true. You can"go back" on the plaster model.

messydesk

@pmh1nic said:

@messydesk said:

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

I agree. All the detail of the 1886 was achieved by hand. Once you made that cut there was no going back, unlike design create on a computer. Of course that gives us all the different varieties we have and what makes collecting Morgan Dollars so interesting.

The crispness of the original is also lost on the modern reproduction of the design. Under any type of magnification a 19th century engraver or inspector would have used, the modern design is blurry.

messydesk

@TurtleCat said:
It’s a good comparison. I think what I feel is that the 2021 series is more “perfect” where the flaws of the original look give it a bit more character. Then add in the color difference of 90% silver and the surface differences (non satin) and there’s just enough to keep me from loving the 2021s.

I’ll be curious to see a comparison with the 2021 Peace as well. That was the one I was most considering but missed out on.

This one will be closer, since the Peace dollar design isn't as crisp as the Morgan design to start with. The luster will still be lifeless in comparison with the original, though.

olympicsos

I don't have a problem with the 2021 design.

olympicsos

@BipolarExpress said:
Well stated. Modern US mint silver is just... lifeless.

The 1921 morgans aren't teeming with life like the 1878-1904 morgans anyways.

messydesk

@asheland said:
I actually want a 1921, but in high grade, 65 or better. Some of them are frosty and quite attractive.

If you want a diamond in the rough, find an attractive 1921-S that has satiny luster and detail as sharp as a 1921 or 1921-D. Most of the coins are struck from mushed out dies that gave results looking like today's Morgans. The small minority that are from new dies shrinks the population down to a frustratingly small number for someone searching for such a coin in gem grade.

robec

My biggest complaint is the satin finish instead of the brilliant. I’m not a fan of the snakeskin look on either cameo or satin fields.

jwitten

I think a 1921 and 2021 Peace slabbed together would be awesome

TurtleCat

@olympicsos said:

@BipolarExpress said:
Well stated. Modern US mint silver is just... lifeless.

The 1921 morgans aren't teeming with life like the 1878-1904 morgans anyways.

The 1921 Morgans were basically a transfer die of older Morgans to recreate the hub. They didn’t expect to need the originals after 1904 after all.

jmlanzaf

@olympicsos said:
I don't have a problem with the 2021 design.

Me neither. It is a beautiful reproduction, faithfully executed.

Weiss

@jmlanzaf said:

@olympicsos said:
I don't have a problem with the 2021 design.

Me neither. It is a beautiful reproduction, faithfully executed.

I'm not quite there yet. But I do think it's hard to look at the 2021 and say it doesn't belong in the series. Especially when we compare the two side by side.

anablep

I haven't received my 2021 Morgans yet, but from the many pictures I'm seeing on the forum, it seems the newer coins are missing that greasy, cartwheel luster we expect to see on MS Morgan dollars of yesteryear. I wonder if future issues of this coin will include a more faithful minting that includes the coin's finish.

Weiss

@anablep said:
I haven't received my 2021 Morgans yet, but from the many pictures I'm seeing on the forum, it seems the newer coins are missing that greasy, cartwheel luster we expect to see on MS Morgan dollars of yesteryear. I wonder if future issues of this coin will include a more faithful minting that includes the coin's finish.

Alternately, I wonder if @dcarr could do an overstrike of these with a semiprooflike or high luster finish.

Mr_Spud

It reminds me of the re-made muscle cars compared to the original. Not Really the same, more of a facsimile

Portross

The denticles are very different, and the letters and stars are rounded and a bit blobby compared to the sharp-edged letters on the old one. It’s perfect but boring. I wonder if it would even be possible to duplicate the look of 19th century coins today.

Steven59

If I didn't know the story behind these I would think they are just some kind of medal for the 1921 100th anniversary........

Che_Grapes

Che_Grapes

The new ones lack a true luster imo - I wish they would have just done a business strike like a half dollar - it would be amazing if they had retained the original surface of the 1921 Morgan ....

pmh1nic

@jmlanzaf said:

@pmh1nic said:

@messydesk said:

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

I agree. All the detail of the 1886 was achieved by hand. Once you made that cut there was no going back, unlike design create on a computer. Of course that gives us all the different varieties we have and what makes collecting Morgan Dollars so interesting.

Not true. You can"go back" on the plaster model.

Not quite as easy as hitting the "undo" key.

jmlanzaf

@pmh1nic said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@pmh1nic said:

@messydesk said:

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

I agree. All the detail of the 1886 was achieved by hand. Once you made that cut there was no going back, unlike design create on a computer. Of course that gives us all the different varieties we have and what makes collecting Morgan Dollars so interesting.

Not true. You can"go back" on the plaster model.

Not quite as easy as hitting the "undo" key.

I didn't say it was easier. You said there "was no going back." I right I better correct that because I know what a stickler you are for the exact meaning of words.

golden

The new 2021 Dollars look like a cheap Chinese copy.

jedm

@messydesk said:

@AMRC said:
If you could show the minter of the 1886 the 2021, they would be amazed at what lasers and computers can do and how far their trade has come.

I beg to differ. They'd think it was a poor copy and lament the decline of their trade over 135 years.

I'm with you. To me it's kinda like comparing the sound of playing vinyl to an mp3 file.

ricko

I received my CC privy 2021 Morgan yesterday. I am very happy with it. True, it differs from early production... Because it is produced differently... However, it is very nice and will reside with my CC series... after a year or so of sitting by my computer where I can see it daily and admire it. Cheers, RickO

Goldminers

The text of the law authorizing these seems to allow for a 90% silver proof. If the Mint wants to order special blanks again, I think those would be very popular.

vulcanize

@Che_Grapes said:

Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me but somehow the 2021 Liberty looks like she has packed on a few pounds in the past century and looking a tad bit chubbier

Overdate

In many U.S. series, coins minted in the final year are significantly different from those minted in the first year.

Raybob15239

@golden said:
The new 2021 Dollars look like a cheap Chinese copy.

I kind of agree... It's the thin, rounded lettering that does it.

olympicsos

@TurtleCat said:
It’s a good comparison. I think what I feel is that the 2021 series is more “perfect” where the flaws of the original look give it a bit more character. Then add in the color difference of 90% silver and the surface differences (non satin) and there’s just enough to keep me from loving the 2021s.

I’ll be curious to see a comparison with the 2021 Peace as well. That was the one I was most considering but missed out on.

The difference is that peace dollars historically came sati> @Weiss said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@olympicsos said:
I don't have a problem with the 2021 design.

Me neither. It is a beautiful reproduction, faithfully executed.

I'm not quite there yet. But I do think it's hard to look at the 2021 and say it doesn't belong in the series. Especially when we compare the two side by side.

Imo it is a part of the series. The 1921 Morgan isn't like the rest of them and is still considered part of the series. Had the 1964 peace dollar been issued despite a 30 year break, it would have been a part of the series.

olympicsos

@vulcanize said:

@Che_Grapes said:

Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me but somehow the 2021 Liberty looks like she has packed on a few pounds in the past century and looking a tad bit chubbier

I like the 2021 better.

TurtleCat

@olympicsos said:

@TurtleCat said:
It’s a good comparison. I think what I feel is that the 2021 series is more “perfect” where the flaws of the original look give it a bit more character. Then add in the color difference of 90% silver and the surface differences (non satin) and there’s just enough to keep me from loving the 2021s.

I’ll be curious to see a comparison with the 2021 Peace as well. That was the one I was most considering but missed out on.

The difference is that peace dollars historically came sati

Right, that's exactly why I was interested in them. It wasn't too far off (look-wise) from the original series. I missed out, though, on getting one when originally offered. I'm still curious if there will be some that show up on the mint site later because of cancellations and credit card problems. I'm not going to pay more than issue price for one as I'm not that desperate for one.

KARacing

@Weiss said:

@BipolarExpress said:

And yet the 2021 still looks like a rendering in comparison to the 1886.

(Now get off my lawn)

Unfortunately and somewhat ironically, I picked up several dozen mid-range raw unc Morgans over the years but specifically avoided 1921s because they were too common. I know the 1921s were slightly different than the other business strikes in the series. Perhaps someone with a raw unc 1921 and a 2021 can post images. That'd be a better side by side.

I'm not a huge fan of this flat grey specimen finish the mint imposes on all modern silver coins. I think it's one of the reasons few of them ever catch fire. They are technically flawless and where else you gonna find an MS68 or MS69 Morgan for a few hundred dollars. But they lack luster and cartwheel. And that's kind of a primal coin collectory thing.

I think cameo proofs would be an interesting finish. The ultimate prooflike Morgan.

I agree - I was really hopeful of the look but a little disappointed when I got mine. I miss the flash and rotation of a really nice coin. That is part of the excitement. We will see how this pans out.

KARacing

@robec said:
My biggest complaint is the satin finish instead of the brilliant. I’m not a fan of the snakeskin look on either cameo or satin fields.

Yes - needs more cowbell, erm cartwheel....

Steve_in_Tampa

In hand, the 2021 Morgan is stunning. I know it’s Apples and Oranges, but if the Bureau of Engraving and Printing ever decided to do a commemorative intaglio reprint of the Bison or Chief note, there would be zero complaints from paper money collectors. All we get now is reprints of these beautiful notes on souvenir cards.

anablep

The 2021 version of the Morgan dollar is leaps & bounds nicer in hand than the 1921 version. It's a beautiful rendition that resembles the 1878-1904 coins more faithfully than the 1921s.

And yes, if a 1964-D Morgan had been produced, it would be a part of this series just as the 2021 is part of the Morgan series. I doubt a 64 Morgan or Peace would have seriously circulated back then anyway. They would have been hoarded...

As an aside, I can imagine the Mint coining these beyond 2021 in limited quantities of proof, uncirculated, DMPL, whatever.

And speaking of 1964, I love these @dcarr 1964-D tributes:
moonlightmint.com/blog_18.htm