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sensitive subject? Coin collecting and estate planning

moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

I'm executor of my father's estate, and will have to deal with filing form OR-706,
Oregon Estate Transfer Tax.

It turns out that Oregon gets 10% or more of everything after the first 1M of an estate, when an Oregon resident passes away.
It doesn't take much of a house plus a retirement plan to exceed $1M these days.

I'm thinking about my own estate, and what my heirs will do.
My coin collection is worth some significant thousands of dollars.
When I pass away (hopefully a few more decades) it could be worth much more.

I don't really like the idea of the government taking a big bite out of my estate, and I also want to be a law-abiding guy, and make things easy on my heirs, and not give extra work and money to lawyers.

What are good ways to deal with a valuable collection, in the context of estate planning?

Please do not post tax-evasion strategies involving anything illegal...

100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
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Comments

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MarkInDavis said:
    Choose to be a resident of another state.

    Or do like most old folks do in retirement and. MarkinDavis is suggesting, move 🤠

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MarkInDavis said:
    Choose to be a resident of another state. I believe only 12 states have estate tax. Amazingly enough, even California does not.

    Kinda like where i am now... Corvallis is loverly.

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cameonut said:
    One of the most important factors in our decision on where to retire was the estate/inheritance taxes. I despise giving money to the goobermint, especially when they did nothing to "EARN" it.

    Already living in one of the nicest places to retire... might want to stay here:

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • MarkInDavisMarkInDavis Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2021 3:08PM

    If you have kids you can trust, gift it to them while you are still alive in small enough increments to avoid estate tax, and you can remain custodian of the coins until your death. Federally the annual gift tax exclusion is 15k. If you are married, I believe you and your wife can each give each person 15k/year. No idea how this works for Oregon.

    image Respectfully, Mark
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Already living in one of the nicest places to retire... might want to stay here:

    We considered the Pacific Northwest ( specifically the San Juan Islands in Washington). Decided the taxes, rainy weather, natural disasters, were not for us. (politics were not a plus for us either). Note that I did not say "family", which is a major factor for many.

    We ended up in Pinehurst, North Carolina - home of American Golf. Great climate, not tropical, close to the ocean when we want to visit and close to the mountains.

    Bottom line is that everyone has their own set of criteria for a good retirement location. We are happy with our decision, I hope you are happy with yours.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    Well now. I think I get it. Watching Fred W. I’ll be doggone That’s what he did,isn’t it? I am going to say I have a lot of respect for him. Thanks for your post 🤠.
    Brilliant. Why worry about what happens, take control.

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    Well now. I think I get it. Watching Fred W. I’ll be doggone That’s what he did,isn’t it? I am going to say I have a lot of respect for him. Thanks for your post 🤠.
    Brilliant. Why worry about what happens, take control.

    Who is Fred W.?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2021 4:30PM

    Fred Weinberg . I hope I’m not misspelling or pronouncing it wrong.
    The slabbed cricket gentleman

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jzyskowski1 said:
    Fred Wineberg. I hope I’m not misspelling or pronouncing it wrong.
    The slabbed cricket gentleman

    Mr. Weinberg is probably the foremost expert on errors. The "slabbed cricket gentleman" is a bit demeaning.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2021 4:35PM

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    Well now. I think I get it. Watching Fred W. I’ll be doggone That’s what he did,isn’t it? I am going to say I have a lot of respect for him. Thanks for your post 🤠.
    Brilliant. Why worry about what happens, take control.

    Dang it JM. What is going on with you. Did you read my post. What more did you want me to say. I don’t know him very well but too insinuate that I’m some how disrespectful. Not today.

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    Well now. I think I get it. Watching Fred W. I’ll be doggone That’s what he did,isn’t it? I am going to say I have a lot of respect for him. Thanks for your post 🤠.
    Brilliant. Why worry about what happens, take control.

    Dang it JM. What is going on with you. Did you read my post. What more did you want me to say. I don’t know him very well but too insinuate that I’m some how disrespectful. Not today.

    It just read as a little disrespectful. Fred is a legend.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    Why not make things even easier and not buy any coins or other collectibles in the first place?😉

    More seriously, I understand your point. But most people don’t know when that time will come and far too many die at very young ages. So asking collectors to just stop collecting at a certain age might not end up being the desired solution, anyway. And either way, you might be asking too much of them. Shouldn’t they be able to collect as they wish during their lifetimes?

    One of your colleagues just did the same thing with his macerated collection.

    I'm not sure this really addresses the estate issue as presented, however. Turning minimal estate transfer taxes into capital gains taxes isn't usually a win.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a very easy way that is not being mentioned.

    thefinn
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:
    There is a very easy way that is not being mentioned.

    Thank you for not mentioning it.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Find out whom in your family is interested in your collection. Draft estate planning docs accordingly.

    For coins no one wants, link up with a dealer or organization you trust. Specify in estate planning docs he / she / it will handle sale of coins and disburse proceeds to heirs as specified in trust docs.

    If you have a collection worth over 50K, pay to have an appraisal done. You will need this valuation to support the number listed on your Federal / State estate tax return.

    Do not die in a state with an estate tax. A client just died, she is not required to file a Federal estate tax return, but is required to file one in Oregon: which means the Federal estate tax return must be prepared to attach as backup to the Oregon Form. Between legal and accounting fees, her estate will pay possibly $20K in legal and accounting fees. Add this to Oregon estate taxes. A portion of professional fees would have to be paid in any event, just to sort out her estate, but the rest would otherwise be unnecessary.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    Why not make things even easier and not buy any coins or other collectibles in the first place?😉

    More seriously, I understand your point. But most people don’t know when that time will come and far too many die at very young ages. So asking collectors to just stop collecting at a certain age might not end up being the desired solution, anyway. And either way, you might be asking too much of them. Shouldn’t they be able to collect as they wish during their lifetimes?

    I have already done this myself. When I reached 65 I stopped collecting things, sold the vast majority of my collections and now only collect knowledge. No one in my family has any interest in coins.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Elcontador said:
    Find out whom in your family is interested in your collection. Draft estate planning docs accordingly.

    For coins no one wants, link up with a dealer or organization you trust. Specify in estate planning docs he / she / it will handle sale of coins and disburse proceeds to heirs as specified in trust docs.

    If you have a collection worth over 50K, pay to have an appraisal done. You will need this valuation to support the number listed on your Federal / State estate tax return.

    Do not die in a state with an estate tax. A client just died, she is not required to file a Federal estate tax return, but is required to file one in Oregon: which means the Federal estate tax return must be prepared to attach as backup to the Oregon Form. Between legal and accounting fees, her estate will pay possibly $20K in legal and accounting fees. Add this to Oregon estate taxes. A portion of professional fees would have to be paid in any event, just to sort out her estate, but the rest would otherwise be unnecessary.

    Personally, I think transferring coins is a mistake if you have multiple heirs. The resulting split could be viewed as inequitable and result in squabbles. Better to have it all sold and split the money. Any heir who wants can bid for the coins they want.

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @thefinn said:
    There is a very easy way that is not being mentioned.

    Thank you for not mentioning it.

    @jmlanzaf should reply: "Don't mention it".

    A punchline is a terrible thing to waste

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • element159element159 Posts: 493 ✭✭✭

    @moursund said:

    @MarkInDavis said:
    Choose to be a resident of another state. I believe only 12 states have estate tax. Amazingly enough, even California does not.

    Kinda like where i am now... Corvallis is loverly.

    Which is more important? Living somewhere that makes you happy, or your heirs having to pay some tax decades from now. The older (I mean wiser) I get, the answer to this gets more and more obvious.
    The cleanest (and most profitable, even if tax is more) answer is not to leave much numismatic value in your estate, but since you presumably collected things that you like, why not keep them while you are still around to enjoy them? It is a personal tradeoff.

    image
  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suppose another option, if your heirs do not appreciate the collection, is to donate it to a worthy charity. Of course the charity would have to auction it off or what have you.

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember. Terrible accident. Nearly lost your life, if I remember 😉

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jessewvu said:
    My coin collection met a terrible end in a boating accident last fall. My guns were lost as well.. bummer.

    Skeet-shooting Ikes?

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You. An always look into a trust, be it for your coins or other parts of the estate for decreasing the overall value.

  • HoldTheMayoHoldTheMayo Posts: 120 ✭✭✭

    @moursund buy a rental property/vacation home in Florida to become state resident. No estate tax or state income tax.

  • @jmlanzaf said:

    @Elcontador said:
    Find out whom in your family is interested in your collection. Draft estate planning docs accordingly.

    For coins no one wants, link up with a dealer or organization you trust. Specify in estate planning docs he / she / it will handle sale of coins and disburse proceeds to heirs as specified in trust docs.

    If you have a collection worth over 50K, pay to have an appraisal done. You will need this valuation to support the number listed on your Federal / State estate tax return.

    Do not die in a state with an estate tax. A client just died, she is not required to file a Federal estate tax return, but is required to file one in Oregon: which means the Federal estate tax return must be prepared to attach as backup to the Oregon Form. Between legal and accounting fees, her estate will pay possibly $20K in legal and accounting fees. Add this to Oregon estate taxes. A portion of professional fees would have to be paid in any event, just to sort out her estate, but the rest would otherwise be unnecessary.

    Personally, I think transferring coins is a mistake if you have multiple heirs. The resulting split could be viewed as inequitable and result in squabbles. Better to have it all sold and split the money. Any heir who wants can bid for the coins they want.

    Responding from home: Specify which heirs have first pics, then second, etc. The wife is first, immediate family members next as specified. Shouldn't be any squabbles. And if there are, I'm dead anyway, so it's not my problem.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @moursund said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @thefinn said:
    There is a very easy way that is not being mentioned.

    Thank you for not mentioning it.

    @jmlanzaf should reply: "Don't mention it".

    A punchline is a terrible thing to waste

    Actually, mine is better. It is more subtle and nuanced.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Elcontador1 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Elcontador said:
    Find out whom in your family is interested in your collection. Draft estate planning docs accordingly.

    For coins no one wants, link up with a dealer or organization you trust. Specify in estate planning docs he / she / it will handle sale of coins and disburse proceeds to heirs as specified in trust docs.

    If you have a collection worth over 50K, pay to have an appraisal done. You will need this valuation to support the number listed on your Federal / State estate tax return.

    Do not die in a state with an estate tax. A client just died, she is not required to file a Federal estate tax return, but is required to file one in Oregon: which means the Federal estate tax return must be prepared to attach as backup to the Oregon Form. Between legal and accounting fees, her estate will pay possibly $20K in legal and accounting fees. Add this to Oregon estate taxes. A portion of professional fees would have to be paid in any event, just to sort out her estate, but the rest would otherwise be unnecessary.

    Personally, I think transferring coins is a mistake if you have multiple heirs. The resulting split could be viewed as inequitable and result in squabbles. Better to have it all sold and split the money. Any heir who wants can bid for the coins they want.

    Responding from home: Specify which heirs have first pics, then second, etc. The wife is first, immediate family members next as specified. Shouldn't be any squabbles. And if there are, I'm dead anyway, so it's not my problem.

    In theory, that works fine. I know of two estates that ended up causing an irreparable breach between siblings.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the unmentionable..... Prior planning prevents piss poor performance. ;) Cheers, RickO

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    The best way to deal with a coin collection in an estate setting is to have no coin collection to deal with. The same goes for other collectibles as well. Don't die with your collection. There is nothing dealers and auction houses like more than having the heirs walk in the door with that "all I want to do is get rid of this stuff fast for cash" look. Set an end date for your active collecting activity and sell everything when that time arrives. If you still like collecting, collect knowledge, not things.

    I like that idea :)

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • OnWithTheHuntOnWithTheHunt Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What coin collection? >:)

    Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2021 7:04AM

    derryB
    yours is the smartest advice of all of the above!!!
    except, it is at the time of death, not inheritance. can be a huge difference in some circumstances.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2021 7:19AM

    @MarkInDavis said:
    Choose to be a resident of another state. I believe only 12 states have estate tax. Amazingly enough, even California does not.

    The decedent's state of record is the taxing authority of the estate. It's too late for him to move.

    And don't forget, there are federal tax forms and taxes with an estate and inheritances.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    derryB
    yours is the smartest advice of all of the above!!!
    except, it is at the time of death, not inheritance. can be a huge difference in some circumstances.

    corrected, thanks

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2021 7:45AM

    @vulcanize said:
    I would reach out to professionals because when my uncle passed away recently in NYC six months ago, it became my responsibility to do the needful since my aunt has Alzheimer's.
    The amount of info can sometimes be very overwhelming and it was extremely beneficial in all aspects to retain the experience and expertise of an estate planning attorney along with a certified CPA knowledgeable in local tax laws because things can and do get slightly complicated if all the steps are not known or clear.
    All the best.

    Like others have mentioned on here - an irrevocable trust fund plus relocation to Texas with no state tax was suggested to my aunt and has been set in place thereby no one (including hospitals and nursing homes etc.) can touch those funds because of the Alzheimer's.

    Nine states — Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming — have no income taxes. New Hampshire, however, taxes interest and dividends, according to the Tax Foundation. (Tennessee eliminated its tax on investment income in 2021.)

    https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/info-2020/states-without-an-income-tax.html

    Edited to add link

  • JJMJJM Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

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