Grammar question

Smudge

Pretty simple. When referring to a High Relief Saint. Would you call it a HR Saint or an HR Saint, or does it matter.

PerryHall

@Smudge said:
Pretty simple. When referring to a High Relief Saint. Would you call it a HR Saint or an HR Saint, or does it matter.

I think "an" is preferable but either one works for me.

MFeld

The answer is “a”.

“For the letter “H”, the pronunciation dictates the indefinite article: Use “a” before words where you pronounce the letter “H” such as “a hat,” “a house” or “a happy cat.” Use “an” before words where you don't pronounce the letter “H” such as “an herb,” “an hour,” or “an honorable man.”

moursund

An HR, because pronouncing the h makes it start with a vowel sound

jmlanzaf

@Smudge said:
Pretty simple. When referring to a High Relief Saint. Would you call it a HR Saint or an HR Saint, or does it matter.

People do it both ways with good old "h".

I prefer "a", but that's me.

Your first two sentences are actually fragments. 😈

ctf_error_coins

"a"

Gradeschool 101

moursund

@MFeld said:
The answer is “a”.

“For the letter “H”, the pronunciation dictates the indefinite article: Use “a” before words where you pronounce the letter “H” such as “a hat,” “a house” or “a happy cat.” Use “an” before words where you don't pronounce the letter “H” such as “an herb,” “an hour,” or “an honorable man.”

Got to disagree with you on this one, mark. It would be a high relief, but an HR

USMarine6

I don't know the answer so I'm guessing it doesn't matter

nwcoast

You like potato and I like potahto, You like tomato and I like tomahto; Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto! Let's call the whole thing off…
Fred Astaire

Though I love Ella’s version.

I vote for “a” - for what it’s worth.
But, either is fine with me.

MFeld

@moursund said:

@MFeld said:
The answer is “a”.

“For the letter “H”, the pronunciation dictates the indefinite article: Use “a” before words where you pronounce the letter “H” such as “a hat,” “a house” or “a happy cat.” Use “an” before words where you don't pronounce the letter “H” such as “an herb,” “an hour,” or “an honorable man.”

Got to disagree with you on this one, mark. It would be a high relief, but an HR

What “one, mark” are you talking about? The question was about grammar, not marks.😉
Your example omitted the word “Saint”, and I think that makes a difference - a (High Relief) Saint, not an (High Relief) Saint.

derryb

When deciding between "a" or "an" to precede an acronym (abbreviation formed from the first letters of other words) choose the one that fits the first letter of the acronym, not the one that fits the spelled-out first word of the acronym. The correct answer to the OP's question is an HR Saint.'

For example:
an FBI agent
a DEA agent

I once had an advance English course professor who claimed that this is the tool to determine "hard" and "soft" letters of the alphabet. According to him "an" indicated a soft letter and "a" indicated a hard letter. I asked him why it mattered if a letter was hard or soft. I did not get an answer.

TurtleCat

English, like other languages, is malleable and changes over time. Thus it was written in the grammar books that HR should be proceeded with an "a" and not "an" because you should be pronouncing the words "high relief" instead of using the acronym. Even so, the rules of language are not set in stone and pronouncing it "an HR" is perfectly acceptable.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-a-or-an

"The deciding factor for which of these words should be used is the sound that begins the word which follows these indefinite articles, rather than the letter which does. And there are scads of words in English that begin with a vowel, but which are initially voiced with a consonant sound (and vice versa)."

airplanenut

Since I read "HR Saint" as "High Relief Saint" I would write "a" instead of "an". But this is very much reader's preference. There are some abbreviations where I'll read them as letters, and others where I read them all the way out as words, and to that end, if readers could go either way, someone will always think you're wrong.

moursund

@MFeld said:

@moursund said:

@MFeld said:
The answer is “a”.

“For the letter “H”, the pronunciation dictates the indefinite article: Use “a” before words where you pronounce the letter “H” such as “a hat,” “a house” or “a happy cat.” Use “an” before words where you don't pronounce the letter “H” such as “an herb,” “an hour,” or “an honorable man.”

Got to disagree with you on this one, mark. It would be a high relief, but an HR

What “one, mark” are you talking about? The question was about grammar, not marks.😉
Your example omitted the word “Saint”, and I think that makes a difference - a (High Relief) Saint, not an (High Relief) Saint.

>
.

Since the OP said "HR Saint", if we are saying "HR Saint", it would be "an HR Saint". If we are saying "High Relief Saint", it would be "a High Relief Saint". Perhaps the Mark and I are agreeing on the general rule...

"an Aitch Arr Saint", because the "Aitch" starts with a vowel sound.
Exceptions exist, e.g. "An Historical", probably because of an historical precedent.

Steven59

There ain't no wrong way to pronounce it -

moursund

@Steven59 said:
There ain't no wrong way to pronounce it -

Q: "Is it pronounced 'eether' or 'eyether'?
A: "Ayther will do..."

Jimnight

a is correct.

WAYNEAS

Yeah, give the English usage a break.
Proper English grammar is preferred but really to post about it, no.
How long will it take to turn this into a CAC post.
LOL
Wayne

CoinJunkie

aitch
/āCH/
noun
noun: aitch; plural noun: aitches;

the letter H.

---

Hence, AN Aitch R Saint.

JBK

@derryb said:
When deciding between "a" or "an" to precede an acronym (abbreviation formed from the first letters of other words) choose the one that fits the first letter of the acronym, not the one that fits the spelled-out first word of the acronym. The correct answer to the OP's question is an HR Saint.'

For example:
an FBI agent
a DEA agent

I once had an advance English course professor who claimed that this is the tool to determine "hard" and "soft" letters of the alphabet. According to him "an" indicated a soft letter and "a" indicated a hard letter. I asked him why it mattered if a letter was hard or soft. I did not get an answer.

I agree.

"A" Federal Bureau of Investigation agent

"An" FBI agent

If you write HR Saint as short hand but would pronounce it as High Relief Saint then I will accept "a".

If you would say "HR Saint" then it's "an".

MFeld

@JBK said:

@derryb said:
When deciding between "a" or "an" to precede an acronym (abbreviation formed from the first letters of other words) choose the one that fits the first letter of the acronym, not the one that fits the spelled-out first word of the acronym. The correct answer to the OP's question is an HR Saint.'

For example:
an FBI agent
a DEA agent

I once had an advance English course professor who claimed that this is the tool to determine "hard" and "soft" letters of the alphabet. According to him "an" indicated a soft letter and "a" indicated a hard letter. I asked him why it mattered if a letter was hard or soft. I did not get an answer.

I agree.

"A" Federal Bureau of Investigation agent

"An" FBI agent

If you write HR Saint as short hand but would pronounce it as High Relief Saint then I will accept "a".

If you would say "HR Saint" then it's "an".

That makes sense. Now who, here, has said and/or heard someone say “HR Saint” in place of “High Relief Saint”? I’d set the over-under line at a very low number.😉

PeakRarities

I say “a” if you’re gonna annunciate the words “high relief”. If you’re use the abbreviation and pronounce just the letters you would use “an”.

CoinJunkie

@MFeld said:

@JBK said:

@derryb said:
When deciding between "a" or "an" to precede an acronym (abbreviation formed from the first letters of other words) choose the one that fits the first letter of the acronym, not the one that fits the spelled-out first word of the acronym. The correct answer to the OP's question is an HR Saint.'

For example:
an FBI agent
a DEA agent

I once had an advance English course professor who claimed that this is the tool to determine "hard" and "soft" letters of the alphabet. According to him "an" indicated a soft letter and "a" indicated a hard letter. I asked him why it mattered if a letter was hard or soft. I did not get an answer.

I agree.

"A" Federal Bureau of Investigation agent

"An" FBI agent

If you write HR Saint as short hand but would pronounce it as High Relief Saint then I will accept "a".

If you would say "HR Saint" then it's "an".

That makes sense. Now who, here, has said and/or heard someone say “HR Saint” in place of “High Relief Saint”? I’d set the over-under line at a very low number.😉

When I read the forum, I like to sound everything out exactly as written, so I guess I'll take the Over.

Raybo

A

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@JBK said:

@derryb said:
When deciding between "a" or "an" to precede an acronym (abbreviation formed from the first letters of other words) choose the one that fits the first letter of the acronym, not the one that fits the spelled-out first word of the acronym. The correct answer to the OP's question is an HR Saint.'

For example:
an FBI agent
a DEA agent

I once had an advance English course professor who claimed that this is the tool to determine "hard" and "soft" letters of the alphabet. According to him "an" indicated a soft letter and "a" indicated a hard letter. I asked him why it mattered if a letter was hard or soft. I did not get an answer.

I agree.

"A" Federal Bureau of Investigation agent

"An" FBI agent

If you write HR Saint as short hand but would pronounce it as High Relief Saint then I will accept "a".

If you would say "HR Saint" then it's "an".

That makes sense. Now who, here, has said and/or heard someone say “HR Saint” in place of “High Relief Saint”? I’d set the over-under line at a very low number.😉

I've never heard anyone say it.

U1chicago

@moursund said:

@MFeld said:

@moursund said:

@MFeld said:
The answer is “a”.

“For the letter “H”, the pronunciation dictates the indefinite article: Use “a” before words where you pronounce the letter “H” such as “a hat,” “a house” or “a happy cat.” Use “an” before words where you don't pronounce the letter “H” such as “an herb,” “an hour,” or “an honorable man.”

Got to disagree with you on this one, mark. It would be a high relief, but an HR

What “one, mark” are you talking about? The question was about grammar, not marks.😉
Your example omitted the word “Saint”, and I think that makes a difference - a (High Relief) Saint, not an (High Relief) Saint.

>
.

Since the OP said "HR Saint", if we are saying "HR Saint", it would be "an HR Saint". If we are saying "High Relief Saint", it would be "a High Relief Saint". Perhaps the Mark and I are agreeing on the general rule...

"an Aitch Arr Saint", because the "Aitch" starts with a vowel sound.
Exceptions exist, e.g. "An Historical", probably because of an historical precedent.

That's how I see it too. You can't predict how someone will read it (abbreviation or full word) so you go with what is written and that is the abbreviation "HR"...so it is "an HR Saint" just like "an HR Department" ....if you want to write it out, then you have "a High Relief Saint" just like "a Human Resources Department"

Rampage

"An" is the correct answer for an HR Saint.
"A" is the correct answer for a High Relief Saint.

BryceM

Wow, not one photo of this common rarity.

JBK

How about "the" HR Saint.

CoinHoarder

CoinJunkie

@CoinHoarder said:

I think "To Observe & Correct" might be more appropriate.

ShaunBC5

The Grammar Police is also the tennis team, this the serve.

keets

calling it a HR Saint just feels uncomfortable to me but I don't think it's necessarily wrong.

ricko

Frankly, forum members... I don't give a damn..... Cheers, RickO

JBK

@ricko said:
Frankly, forum members... I don't give a damn..... Cheers, RickO

Didn't you mean " an damn"?

joeykoins

@MFeld said:

Now who, here, has said and/or heard someone say “HR Saint” in place of “High Relief Saint”?

Well, technically Mark, you did ask,"who here..." So in saying,"here". Means 99% of members here wouldn't read it as, "HR" instead of reading it, "High Relief". But, there still is that 1% that unknowingly would read it as,"HR".
Just joining in the fun.

MFeld

@joeykoins said:

@MFeld said:

Now who, here, has said and/or heard someone say “HR Saint” in place of “High Relief Saint”?

Well, technically Mark, you did ask,"who here..." So in saying,"here". Means 99% of members here wouldn't read it as, "HR" instead of reading it, "High Relief". But, there still is that 1% that unknowingly would read it as,"HR".
Just joining in the fun.

Joey, please note, I used the words “said” and “heard” (which were meant to indicate out loud), not “read”.😉

moursund

To continue reading this thread requires the patience of an saint.

PerryHall

@moursund said:
To continue reading this thread requires the patience of an saint.

"a saint"

Swampboy

"a HR Saint"
catches my tongue.
"an HR Saint" not

moursund

This thread is becoming an noying.

CoinJunkie

@moursund said:
This thread is becoming an noying.

Ironically, it's also becoming a-nnoying.

shortnock

LOL, LOL, FOMA and gasping for an breath.

DNADave

I’d rather have halfs then quarters.

NO NO NO

I’d rather have halves than quarters.

I just wanted to to get that off my chest and this seemed like as good of a thread as any.

Catbert

Where’s Roger Moore when we need him?

BuffaloIronTail

@USMarine6 said:
I don't know the answer so I'm guessing it doesn't matter

Now THIS is the correct answer.

Pete

BuffaloIronTail

@DNADave said:
I’d rather have halfs then quarters.

NO NO NO

I’d rather have halves than quarters.

I just wanted to to get that off my chest and this seemed like as good of a thread as any.

But two "Halves" make a Hole, right?

...........or am I digging one right now?

Pete

JBK

@DNADave said:
I’d rather have halfs then quarters.

NO NO NO

I’d rather have halves than quarters.

I just wanted to to get that off my chest and this seemed like as good of a thread as any.

I prefer "halfs" as shorthand for "half dollars".