So maybe ultra rarities are cheap....
Gazes
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The Banksy painting that self destructed during auction sold for 1.4 million dollars during the auction where it automatically shredded. It sold last night for 25.4 million dollars. A nice profit for the buyer of 24 million dollars. Keep an open mind when evaluating recent coin prices.
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"Ultra rarities" are always cheap...when no one wants them.
I'm not sure what the Banksy painting tells me about coin prices. The Banksy buyer at $25 million might have bought on the way up or at the peak or even on the way down. The next price point is still impossible to predict.
There is no doubt that VF/better 1921 Morgan $s went from $20 18 months ago to $30 today. Now, based on those two price points, could you (anyone?) tell me the price of 1921 Morgan $s in 6 months much less 6 years?
Nice
That’s not the same painting that sold for 1.4mm…
It gained most of its current value in the 5 seconds after the hammer fell.
It's a error painting because it didn't fully shred!
Are you kidding? I can tell you the score of a football game before it even starts.
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Obviously I have no concept of how art is valued... I fail to understand anything about the value of a shredded painting.... Oh well, back to what I do understand. Cheers, RickO
The billionaire's playground is of little or no importance to average collectors unless they allow themselves to believe that such absurd prices drive up the value of their own ordinary coins or other collectibles.
Let's compare apples to apples
If you want to suggest numismatic rarities... one could look at a recently auctioned GB George I 1723 Half Crown graded MS63 by NGC... I don't believe our host has graded an MS George I Half Crown. NGC has graded less than 6-8 if that. The hammer was 11,000. Not all rarities are recognized or appreciated for what they are. Imagine the value if this was a US coin?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I appreciate the rarity of the Half Crown but please don't compare the UK with US popularity. US will always be more popular because of our history and values. Although not perfect (human endeavors never will be) we still possess the foundation for coexistence on this planet. Economically, Britain will never be the powerhouse that is represented by our coinage. Recently more popular than ever US numismatics will continue to thrive down the road IMO.
But I doubt a purposely damaged coin will fetch $25 million any time soon.
I actually believe that the ultra rares DO affect the lower grades. Not the G-F really commons maybe, but anything halfway scarce and in demand.
Publicity always adds interest in every field.
fathom wrote:
I appreciate the rarity of the Half Crown but please don't compare the UK with US popularity. US will always be more popular because of our history and values. Although not perfect (human endeavors never will be) we still possess the foundation for coexistence on this planet. Economically, Britain will never be the powerhouse that is represented by our coinage. Recently more popular than ever US numismatics will continue to thrive down the road IMO.
Really?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Especially because it was filmed. Museums should have been fighting for the opportunity to display the piece alongside a video of the auction. Interestingly, this is one of the few times a piece of art was clearly worth more to museums than private collectors, IMHO.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If I were a big museum donor and I found out that my museum had just paid $25.4 million for that painting I would end my support of the museum immediately. It is nothing but gimmick "art".
if a coin auction went globally viral then there is a good chance that coin would go up in value due to the publicity. That said you need people to care for something to go viral. The most famous of this is the viral stories of a ford for a 1943 copper penny. Now look at them.
Art is collected by trendy people (and people who want to be trendy) and always has. This is not a issue for coins. Rarity and values are only a part of the supply and demand formula
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Zions-
“ It's a error painting because it didn't fully shred!”
👍😃
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Is that your picture of the coin while in prison?
BHNC #203
Intended to say during the auction, but OK you got me.
Yeah, there aren't any trophy coins. [End sarcasm]
The question is are there more trophy coins than big game hunters. Guesstimate the number of million dollar art collections vs million dollar coin. 10, 100million and so on. Only coin collectors would compare the markets
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@tradedollarnut Are my eyes deceiving me? or is that '94-S in a shopping cart? LOL
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
It is at the ice cream store where it was used to buy an ice cream cone!
My ice cream store experience
I thought I would treat myself to an ice cream cone yesterday... Well... a single scoop was 4.99 and a double was 8.99. Needless to say... thee was no treat and I suppose I have now surpassed Walter Matthau as the new face of grumpy old men everywhere.
The only thing missing is that 1964 Cadillac convertible he drove in The Bad News Bears
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The art market is, of course, far larger. But no two collectible markets are identical. That doesn't preclude comparison.
Maybe but that scale difference is the key part in the difference in the supply and demand gap and the prices are not remotely correlated. 25mil dollar paintings means nothing to stamps or Bennie babies either.
Part of the problem with coins is their strong performance from like the 60-2010s. Lots of dealers to feed as a percentage to collectors with collectors watching as if prices do nothing but go up. For every grading or history conversation I get to have I have 3-4 people talk investment or pricing speculation with me. One would be wise to notice most things went up a crazy percentage during that time too due to the devaluation of the dollar.
Many of the appreciation spikes is from the need to absorb TPG costs, increased metal prices, inflation and dealer to dealer transactions and not necessarily collectors entering the hobby. This doesn’t mean the spikes in demand to rarer coins don’t happen but it also does include the concentration of people targeting “PQ” coins instead of being content with the raw svdb w/light pin scratches out of coin world.
People like comparing the art market because it creates the impressing that there is a lot more room for our tulips to keep going up in price, IMHO it’s a dangerous conversation for our hobby. Dealers may like it because they need growth to make absorbing their percentages easier but telling the existing demand they simply need to pay more isn’t the same as greater/increasing demand.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
My last sentence in my OP was key. Keep an open mind when evaluating recent coin prices. The example that a piece of art that sold for 1.4 million could jump to 25 million in three years could not be predicted. Look at what bottle of bourbons are being sold for.
Some on here seem to think coin prices need to stay flat forever. I hear the same thing over and over---yet we are seeing some strong moves upward with truly rare US coins. I'm just asking people to keep an open mind.
@Gazes No one said flat forever, some of us are imploring comprehension for existing increases and a minimum of wild speculation. To be fair I prefer these conversations compared to the speculation for new issues by flippers who use metal gymnastics to justify basic pump and dump.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Another thing to think about. We always hear the theme that the coin market is small and the influx of a few major collectors can cause prices to rise. This is usually mentioned with the idea when those collectors sell prices will return to their previous levels.
So I said keep an open mind. What if the opposite happens? What if many more than a few major collectors enter the market. And what if these collectors not only dont sell but more major collectors join them. This could cause prices for condition census coins to rise much more rapidly than probably anyone could imagine. In other words, the idea the coin market is small can work both ways.
Coins are limited editions with few exceptions, they will never be in the same caliber as paintings - there are only so many Van Gogh's and every one is unique.
That being said, coins are moving up and I think most price levels will continue to increase in value from a lot of factors: inflation is heating up, more collectors advancing in wealth and income into their prime buying years, and new collectors who have good tech etc. incomes coming into the coin hobby/industry. I was out of buying for about 8 years and came back in 2018 when prices of flowing hair and draped bust coins were lower than they were in 2008, I felt like a kid in a candy store and bought a bunch including small eagle halves and a couple of early tens at 40% less than they were selling in 2008. In the past year these have moved back up including lower grades.
A bit of a side note, but there is a LOT of money with young successful tech entrepreneurs and employees who made a bundle in stock options. I go to a local gathering of car enthusiasts, not your usual show-n-shine but restricted to "exotics", in Redmond, WA next to Microsoft headquarters and other emerging companies. Every week about 500 cars all six figures and up. Went to "Italian Day" this year with no less than 400 Ferrari's and Lamborghini's' from local owners. If these guys go into coins, watch out. Here are a few: