Well JM I believe you have your research that’s fine. I live it every day that’s fine. Zion’s I understand you have different experiences from me. That’s fine. We live in different areas and I think we must have different views. By the way ( you knew I was going to say this). He collects stamps. So do I and at 69. I’m under 70🤠 Peace guys 🙏
@Gazes said:
Coins can either go down, stay the same, or go up. Everyone on these forums love coins (well almost everyone). There are alot more people not on the forums that enjoys coins too. There are a finite number of coins and lots of people who want the best coins. There have been many improvements in our hobby over the years and it's now easier to find a coin, research its price, have some faith in authenticity and grade then ever before. Given all this I would be shocked if prices went on a downward trend. I suppose prices could stay the same but prices for everything else seem to go up. The most logical conclusion are prices will go up. I'm not sure why this surprises people. It wont go up in a straight line---it may stay the same or go down in the short term but so long as there are collectors and they cant mint old new coins---the trend should be upwards.
And yet, despite the “many improvements in our hobby”, prior to COVID, many of even the “best” coins had been in a prolonged downturn in price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Well JM I believe you have your research that’s fine. I live it every day that’s fine. Zion’s I understand you have different experiences from me. That’s fine. We live in different areas and I think we must have different views. By the way ( you knew I was going to say this). He collects stamps. So do I and at 69. I’m under 70🤠 Peace guys 🙏
@Gazes said:
Coins can either go down, stay the same, or go up. Everyone on these forums love coins (well almost everyone). There are alot more people not on the forums that enjoys coins too. There are a finite number of coins and lots of people who want the best coins. There have been many improvements in our hobby over the years and it's now easier to find a coin, research its price, have some faith in authenticity and grade then ever before. Given all this I would be shocked if prices went on a downward trend. I suppose prices could stay the same but prices for everything else seem to go up. The most logical conclusion are prices will go up. I'm not sure why this surprises people. It wont go up in a straight line---it may stay the same or go down in the short term but so long as there are collectors and they cant mint old new coins---the trend should be upwards.
And yet, despite the “many improvements in our hobby”, prior to COVID, many of even the “best” coins had been in a prolonged downturn in price.
@Catbert said:
Was reflecting on this while cutting my lawn. Know that @Gazes posted similarly regarding higher valued coins.
What are the factors driving higher coin prices seen recently? Price guide upticks have been published. Is it:
Pent up demand – during the lockdowns, hobbies flourished, and this passion continued once economy opened again. Definitely a factor.
Stimulus payments – acted as an accelerant, but these funds should be exhausted now.
Demographic trends – the boomers are retiring in ever higher numbers averaging 8-10,000 retiring every year for the next 19 years. However, 45% of them have no retirement savings. Americans aged 65-74 typically spend 55K annually (not a good combination!). Our hobby is driven by discretionary income, but are there enough wealthy boomers to be a cause?
Bullion pricing – trending up considerably over last 5 years. Always a factor.
Inflation – this may be a driver just starting to kick in.
Hobby cycles – it this a normal uptick after being down for so long? Perhaps.
My conclusion is a combination of pent-up demand, bullion pricing, and inflationary trends.
The coin market is thriving with YN on instagram too. I assume because it could be shared with masses instead of the carpet floor in a bedroom like I had to grow up in the 80s when I was a kid.
I agree YN’s are entering the coin market.
And don’t forget the world getting larger meaning there are more world coin collectors …IMO .
We have now gone for more than ten years with no ability to make any money from savings. Interest rates paid to savers are insultingly low. This inability to make any money from savings also serves to pump more money into asset buying such as collectibles.
If that’s the only asset class you’ve been in the last 10 years you missed out on a spectacular 10 year bull run in equities .
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
No. Most kids are making money. It’s way different from when we were young. Joey really made a good point. These kids are sharp. I’m not speculating. I am living it every day.
I know about the YouTube and Roblox millionaires who are certainly very impressive, but only a few kids are at that level or even try from my understanding. How do “most” (over 50%) kids make money at 8 years old?
My youngest just turned 16 and is not rich by any means nor does he have any youtube channel etc, but he follows quite a few of those money making ideas, helping his older brother with instacart deliveries during the pandemic lockdown. The brothers made enough to go on a weeklong vacation to California this past July and my oldest bought his own motorcycle.
He also dabbles in soccer jerseys and shoes (apart from coins) and made a tidy sum to buy his own set of wheels - a used BMW X3 nevertheless. I was mighty impressed at the level head on the shoulders of a Junior in High School because my greatest achievement at that same age was trying to score maximum number of girls
Academically is always on the high honor roll andis a HS varsity swimmer from freshman year with top sixteen achievement in state etc.
I have always told them to err on the side of caution with "calculated risks" and NOT "risky calculations" - sincerely hope he does not trip up by overextending himself.
@ricko said:
Many viewpoints expressed in this thread... some, diametrically opposed. Many show obvious research and are well founded. That being said, one glaring fact remains. Economically, something must happen - we cannot continue this unrestrained spending and diluting the currency. Not sure what the final chapter will be like, but I do believe it will be a major process and will affect most of us. Fasten your financial seat belts...Cheers, RickO
Running out of money is one of the primary reasons major civilizations fail.
@Gazes said:
Coins can either go down, stay the same, or go up. Everyone on these forums love coins (well almost everyone). There are alot more people not on the forums that enjoys coins too. There are a finite number of coins and lots of people who want the best coins. There have been many improvements in our hobby over the years and it's now easier to find a coin, research its price, have some faith in authenticity and grade then ever before. Given all this I would be shocked if prices went on a downward trend. I suppose prices could stay the same but prices for everything else seem to go up. The most logical conclusion are prices will go up. I'm not sure why this surprises people. It wont go up in a straight line---it may stay the same or go down in the short term but so long as there are collectors and they cant mint old new coins---the trend should be upwards.
And yet, despite the “many improvements in our hobby”, prior to COVID, many of even the “best” coins had been in a prolonged downturn in price.
Buying opportunities
That’s quite possible. But it’s also possible that your premise is incorrect.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm one of the new collectors who may be partly responsible for the "boom." I collected coins as a kid, and am back after a 30-year hiatus. I encouraged my son to explore coins during COVID and unexpectedly got sucked back in myself.
I've spent way more time and money than I ever could've imagined over the past year getting back into coins. A lot of it is admittedly childhood wish fulfillment - I mostly collect the same coins that I did when I was a kid (classic 19th and 20th century series), just in much higher grades. If there are a lot more folks like me, it might explain why some of the hottest areas of the coin market are these same series. While I mostly avoid social media, I've surprisingly become active on Instagram, which seems to me like the ideal medium for anonymously sharing coins from my collection and appreciating the collections of others.
Are coins a short-term crush or a long-term love interest for me? Right now, it feels like something that will stick with me, but I honestly don't know. When my family starts vacationing and getting out more often, and when I go back into the office, I'm sure it will cut into the time and money I spend on coins. On the other hand, I suspect that the things that will keep me invested in the hobby are: my kids' interest level in the hobby, social connections with other collectors (beyond the virtual world), and a sense that the coin market - at least for the eye-appealing stuff that I'm drawn to - is alive and well, rather than in inexorable decline.
@Gazes said:
Coins can either go down, stay the same, or go up. Everyone on these forums love coins (well almost everyone). There are alot more people not on the forums that enjoys coins too. There are a finite number of coins and lots of people who want the best coins. There have been many improvements in our hobby over the years and it's now easier to find a coin, research its price, have some faith in authenticity and grade then ever before. Given all this I would be shocked if prices went on a downward trend. I suppose prices could stay the same but prices for everything else seem to go up. The most logical conclusion are prices will go up. I'm not sure why this surprises people. It wont go up in a straight line---it may stay the same or go down in the short term but so long as there are collectors and they cant mint old new coins---the trend should be upwards.
And yet, despite the “many improvements in our hobby”, prior to COVID, many of even the “best” coins had been in a prolonged downturn in price.
5 year olds like playing with labels. Try to get anyone under age 70 to collect stamps.
Hey, I'm 42 and still buy old stamps on occasion.
I'm afraid you're mistaken. Our resident expert on all things has spoken.
Statistical outlier. LOL
Stamps are still predominantly an old man's hobby. Go to a stamp show and count the oxygen tanks. It's one of the major reasons stamp prices have been in a 20 year decline.
It's a real problem in the stamp market. But hey, you're the expert, feel free to opine.
For the record, I'm in my 50s and buy stamps. But I love stamp shows because they make me feel young.
@Gazes said:
Coins can either go down, stay the same, or go up. Everyone on these forums love coins (well almost everyone). There are alot more people not on the forums that enjoys coins too. There are a finite number of coins and lots of people who want the best coins. There have been many improvements in our hobby over the years and it's now easier to find a coin, research its price, have some faith in authenticity and grade then ever before. Given all this I would be shocked if prices went on a downward trend. I suppose prices could stay the same but prices for everything else seem to go up. The most logical conclusion are prices will go up. I'm not sure why this surprises people. It wont go up in a straight line---it may stay the same or go down in the short term but so long as there are collectors and they cant mint old new coins---the trend should be upwards.
And yet, despite the “many improvements in our hobby”, prior to COVID, many of even the “best” coins had been in a prolonged downturn in price.
Buying opportunities
That’s quite possible. But it’s also possible that your premise is incorrect.
Absolutely. This thread asks for an opinion so almost every comment could be right or wrong.
For years, I collected condition census liberty quarter eagles. One reason---the prices had been largely flat for years. Besides liking the series, my thought was similar to my earlier post. Finite number of coins with collectors always looking for new areas to collect (especially if they get priced out of another area)--i thought this series had potential. Always was told that series was "dead". I never thought prices would decline for these truely rare coins (so little risk) and eventually they would rise. Sure enough over the last several years prices for condition census lib quarter eagles have increased considerably. There are other series which I believe are similarly situated right now.
@Bigtree said:
I'm one of the new collectors who may be partly responsible for the "boom." I collected coins as a kid, and am back after a 30-year hiatus. I encouraged my son to explore coins during COVID and unexpectedly got sucked back in myself.
I've spent way more time and money than I ever could've imagined over the past year getting back into coins. A lot of it is admittedly childhood wish fulfillment - I mostly collect the same coins that I did when I was a kid (classic 19th and 20th century series), just in much higher grades. If there are a lot more folks like me, it might explain why some of the hottest areas of the coin market are these same series. While I mostly avoid social media, I've surprisingly become active on Instagram, which seems to me like the ideal medium for anonymously sharing coins from my collection and appreciating the collections of others.
Are coins a short-term crush or a long-term love interest for me? Right now, it feels like something that will stick with me, but I honestly don't know. When my family starts vacationing and getting out more often, and when I go back into the office, I'm sure it will cut into the time and money I spend on coins. On the other hand, I suspect that the things that will keep me invested in the hobby are: my kids' interest level in the hobby, social connections with other collectors (beyond the virtual world), and a sense that the coin market - at least for the eye-appealing stuff that I'm drawn to - is alive and well, rather than in inexorable decline.
Welcome back.
This story is pretty common. Most of us probably have a similar story. So, while you are new, your journey is not new or unusual. Maybe there are more of you than there used to be. IDK.
@Bigtree said:
I'm one of the new collectors who may be partly responsible for the "boom." I collected coins as a kid, and am back after a 30-year hiatus. I encouraged my son to explore coins during COVID and unexpectedly got sucked back in myself.
I've spent way more time and money than I ever could've imagined over the past year getting back into coins. A lot of it is admittedly childhood wish fulfillment - I mostly collect the same coins that I did when I was a kid (classic 19th and 20th century series), just in much higher grades. If there are a lot more folks like me, it might explain why some of the hottest areas of the coin market are these same series. While I mostly avoid social media, I've surprisingly become active on Instagram, which seems to me like the ideal medium for anonymously sharing coins from my collection and appreciating the collections of others.
Are coins a short-term crush or a long-term love interest for me? Right now, it feels like something that will stick with me, but I honestly don't know. When my family starts vacationing and getting out more often, and when I go back into the office, I'm sure it will cut into the time and money I spend on coins. On the other hand, I suspect that the things that will keep me invested in the hobby are: my kids' interest level in the hobby, social connections with other collectors (beyond the virtual world), and a sense that the coin market - at least for the eye-appealing stuff that I'm drawn to - is alive and well, rather than in inexorable decline.
Ditto.
As an eight year old, mydream was acquiring the Penny Black and laying my hands on it as an adult however, that joy was short lived.
My older two college goers don't want anything to do with my hobbies of coins, stamps and model railroad etc.
The youngest who is 16 and a HS junior is currently into numismatics mostly as a coin flipper making money by buying cheaper stuff online and selling it higher as well as being the conduit for selling off my duplicate coins etc.
Would he become a collector, no clue. But my stuff is going to be left for all three to decide what they want to do with it.
@Bigtree said:
I'm one of the new collectors who may be partly responsible for the "boom." I collected coins as a kid, and am back after a 30-year hiatus. I encouraged my son to explore coins during COVID and unexpectedly got sucked back in myself.
I've spent way more time and money than I ever could've imagined over the past year getting back into coins. A lot of it is admittedly childhood wish fulfillment - I mostly collect the same coins that I did when I was a kid (classic 19th and 20th century series), just in much higher grades. If there are a lot more folks like me, it might explain why some of the hottest areas of the coin market are these same series. While I mostly avoid social media, I've surprisingly become active on Instagram, which seems to me like the ideal medium for anonymously sharing coins from my collection and appreciating the collections of others.
Are coins a short-term crush or a long-term love interest for me? Right now, it feels like something that will stick with me, but I honestly don't know. When my family starts vacationing and getting out more often, and when I go back into the office, I'm sure it will cut into the time and money I spend on coins. On the other hand, I suspect that the things that will keep me invested in the hobby are: my kids' interest level in the hobby, social connections with other collectors (beyond the virtual world), and a sense that the coin market - at least for the eye-appealing stuff that I'm drawn to - is alive and well, rather than in inexorable decline.
Ditto.
As an eight year old, mydream was acquiring the Penny Black and laying my hands on it as an adult however, that joy was short lived.
My older two college goers don't want anything to do with my hobbies of coins, stamps and model railroad etc.
The youngest who is 16 and a HS junior is currently into numismatics mostly as a coin flipper making money by buying cheaper stuff online and selling it higher as well as being the conduit for selling off my duplicate coins etc.
Would he become a collector, no clue. But my stuff is going to be left for all three to decide what they want to do with it.
Sorry to hear this. I'm available for adoption.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Some profits made in the markets and crypto was pulled out opportunistically by some business owners who were in the red over the pandemic as a tax strategy. Some put into real estate, but there is now too much risk in the better markets, being in unsustainably high levels and revenue starved (also due to the pandemic) county and local governments have or are planning substantial hikes up in property taxes to close their budget deficits. So coins and bullion are among the assets in focus, particularly considering the inflation situation and possible problems with the US national credit.
That said, the float out there is rather thin. One might have expected a lot more liquidating of collections among those hit hard over the past 18 months or so. But the view I have is that there is a lot of stagnant inventory. Even major auctions don't have the slew of celebrated high quality lots that were more common not long ago. But those who are buying are opting for what is available nonetheless.
You tubers like Robfindstreasure, blueridgesilverhound, coinhelpu, etc. are certainly helping to fuel the fire. Trying to make it seem easy to make money from pocket change or coin roll searching, etc. is not as easy as they make it appear.
Comments
Well JM I believe you have your research that’s fine. I live it every day that’s fine. Zion’s I understand you have different experiences from me. That’s fine. We live in different areas and I think we must have different views. By the way ( you knew I was going to say this). He collects stamps. So do I and at 69. I’m under 70🤠 Peace guys 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
And yet, despite the “many improvements in our hobby”, prior to COVID, many of even the “best” coins had been in a prolonged downturn in price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The exceptions do not prove the rule.
Why is everyone so anti-science?
Buying opportunities
I agree YN’s are entering the coin market.
And don’t forget the world getting larger meaning there are more world coin collectors …IMO .
If that’s the only asset class you’ve been in the last 10 years you missed out on a spectacular 10 year bull run in equities .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The fact that other pre-pandemic hobbies are hard to do now
Great to hear! Sounds like you raised him right!
If everyone was enterprising as your son, I wonder if we would be in this situation.
I think replacing the pension with the 401k helped a few people but was detrimental to a greater percentage of people's savings.
That’s quite possible. But it’s also possible that your premise is incorrect.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm afraid you're mistaken. Our resident expert on all things has spoken.
I'm one of the new collectors who may be partly responsible for the "boom." I collected coins as a kid, and am back after a 30-year hiatus. I encouraged my son to explore coins during COVID and unexpectedly got sucked back in myself.
I've spent way more time and money than I ever could've imagined over the past year getting back into coins. A lot of it is admittedly childhood wish fulfillment - I mostly collect the same coins that I did when I was a kid (classic 19th and 20th century series), just in much higher grades. If there are a lot more folks like me, it might explain why some of the hottest areas of the coin market are these same series. While I mostly avoid social media, I've surprisingly become active on Instagram, which seems to me like the ideal medium for anonymously sharing coins from my collection and appreciating the collections of others.
Are coins a short-term crush or a long-term love interest for me? Right now, it feels like something that will stick with me, but I honestly don't know. When my family starts vacationing and getting out more often, and when I go back into the office, I'm sure it will cut into the time and money I spend on coins. On the other hand, I suspect that the things that will keep me invested in the hobby are: my kids' interest level in the hobby, social connections with other collectors (beyond the virtual world), and a sense that the coin market - at least for the eye-appealing stuff that I'm drawn to - is alive and well, rather than in inexorable decline.
Which is only known in retrospect.
Statistical outlier. LOL
Stamps are still predominantly an old man's hobby. Go to a stamp show and count the oxygen tanks. It's one of the major reasons stamp prices have been in a 20 year decline.
It's a real problem in the stamp market. But hey, you're the expert, feel free to opine.
For the record, I'm in my 50s and buy stamps. But I love stamp shows because they make me feel young.
https://517mag.com/business/demographics-affect-supply-and-demand-for-collectibles/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2013/apr/13/stamp-collectors-catalogues-philately-clubs
Absolutely. This thread asks for an opinion so almost every comment could be right or wrong.
For years, I collected condition census liberty quarter eagles. One reason---the prices had been largely flat for years. Besides liking the series, my thought was similar to my earlier post. Finite number of coins with collectors always looking for new areas to collect (especially if they get priced out of another area)--i thought this series had potential. Always was told that series was "dead". I never thought prices would decline for these truely rare coins (so little risk) and eventually they would rise. Sure enough over the last several years prices for condition census lib quarter eagles have increased considerably. There are other series which I believe are similarly situated right now.
Canadian coin market still dead.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Dead or Canadian?
Welcome back.
This story is pretty common. Most of us probably have a similar story. So, while you are new, your journey is not new or unusual. Maybe there are more of you than there used to be. IDK.
Ditto.
As an eight year old, mydream was acquiring the Penny Black and laying my hands on it as an adult however, that joy was short lived.
My older two college goers don't want anything to do with my hobbies of coins, stamps and model railroad etc.
The youngest who is 16 and a HS junior is currently into numismatics mostly as a coin flipper making money by buying cheaper stuff online and selling it higher as well as being the conduit for selling off my duplicate coins etc.
Would he become a collector, no clue. But my stuff is going to be left for all three to decide what they want to do with it.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Sorry to hear this. I'm available for adoption.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Stimulus money ain't hurtin' the hobby.
Guess what happens to prices realized if you were to walk into a coin auction and give every bidder the amount of money he came in the door with?
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Some profits made in the markets and crypto was pulled out opportunistically by some business owners who were in the red over the pandemic as a tax strategy. Some put into real estate, but there is now too much risk in the better markets, being in unsustainably high levels and revenue starved (also due to the pandemic) county and local governments have or are planning substantial hikes up in property taxes to close their budget deficits. So coins and bullion are among the assets in focus, particularly considering the inflation situation and possible problems with the US national credit.
That said, the float out there is rather thin. One might have expected a lot more liquidating of collections among those hit hard over the past 18 months or so. But the view I have is that there is a lot of stagnant inventory. Even major auctions don't have the slew of celebrated high quality lots that were more common not long ago. But those who are buying are opting for what is available nonetheless.
You tubers like Robfindstreasure, blueridgesilverhound, coinhelpu, etc. are certainly helping to fuel the fire. Trying to make it seem easy to make money from pocket change or coin roll searching, etc. is not as easy as they make it appear.