The law of diminishing returns as it pertains to high grade coins
Joey29
Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
I was contemplating buying a beautiful ms 67 1943 walker for $500, when I realized that I wasn’t getting much more eye appeal from a solid ms 65 I owned for $90. So I am thinking why pay high prices for ms 67 coins when there is limited difference in contact marks with many high end ms 65 coins that affect visual enjoyment. I do see exceptions where it comes to registry coins for the finest sets, or where the price difference in peace dollars and walkers in common grades is $100 or so between ms 65-66
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If you don’t mind driving a Toyota go for it!
For some folks price isn't an issue. For others the things that some folks consider insignificant matter.
A nice XF is even cheaper.
Ouch
If you are happy with a certain grade, then just enjoy it. To some people, the smallest differences do matter and they are willing to pay for them, which is also fine.
I enjoy some of the very highest grades for certain coins (slabbed) and I also buy a version of the same coin that is not a high grade, but still attractive to look at (in raw form). It's just a different way of enjoying the coin hobby.
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I agree with most of your comments, just wondering if some of these ms 67-68 prices will hold up for coins with huge multiples of ms 65-66 coins.
It all depends on what you’re after. If you’re thinking bang for the buck then I’d say your spot on. If a particular series is your specialty and passion then the minor differences are very noticeable and worth pursuing at greater price.
Since I don't have unlimited wealth, I always try to buy the highest grade just before the big jump in price at the next higher grade. I like coins but I want to get the best bang for my buck.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am all for the premiums shrinking between a Ms-66 and MS-67 so long as I get the MS-67 and you are ok with the MS-66.
This is my philosophy as well, and one that Q. David Bowers also recommends.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Bowers takes it a step farther by looking for high end coins in the highest grade before the "big Jump" in price at the next higher grades and avoid coins that just made the grade.
I also adhered to this....also adhered to putting the serious money into genuinely scarce coins, rather than condition rarities, when building my Walker set.
Years ago, the late dates were expensive in TPG 65 holders, and astronomical in the mega grades. I was happy with cheap 64's. But, I'd have no problem laying out big bucks for 23S, 1921, 17S Obv, etc coins in AU. These coins were genuinely scarce and would ALWAYS be scarce.
The late dates, on the other hand, were still around in original rolls, and dealers had stacks of "choice BU" raw coins in their cases. As these eventually got submitted, along with perhaps a bit of looser grading, the pops of gem grades exploded and prices plummeted. That is when I started upgrading the late dates to 65/66 coins for the registry set.
To this day, most of those late dates in 67 are yawners to me, unless they have spectacular toning or strike. Show me a pre-29 Walker in AU or higher - now there's a cool coin! And better yet, one there will always be a market for.
I think a bigger issue is with grading so opinion based, I can easily find MS65's that look just as good as MS67's. Take these 2 coins pulled from CoinFacts photos ... top coin was graded MS67 ... bottom coin was graded MS65. It's hard to tell the difference. Certainly it's subtle. Top coin will run you about $700, bottom coin about $100. I'll take the bottom and leave $600 for more stuff.
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I agree with many of the comments, I always liked the truly tougher dates in Nice CH AU, many are tougher than you think, especially nice. An accurately graded CH 67 would be way nicer than a 65, but the cost is a factor, if price is an objective, being your not a registry chaser, finding a choice 65+ might be best option A lot of these common dates have come down over the years in 65/66, I was kind surprised when i realized this a couple years ago, when i bought a larger deal that contained a lot of 65/66 common dates.
The application of the greater fool coin theory.
The greater fool coin theory argues that prices go up because people (collectors and dealers) are able to sell overpriced coins to a "greater fool", whether or not they are overvalued. That is, of course, until there are no greater fools left.
But so is the spread of quality. Many collectors can’t even grade the MS differences but will pay for them? Everyone can see an XF has been around. There is a point where the price jumps greater than the bump in quality due to registry points or pop reports, I suspect that is what the poster is alluding to
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The 1943 Walker is a very common coin. Don't waste money on high grade common coins.
I’d generally agree, however, if the OP (or anyone else) just wants one great example for type, then it’s a good choice, as it’s usually well struck and very lustrous at a reasonable price.
I think that's what QDB refers to as the "optimal collecting grade."
I know what he's alluding to, but many people can tell the difference between a 65, a 66 and 67 and are apparently willing to pay a premium to acquire it.
Bottom coin has huge luster not often seen on MS 65 graded coins. Just shows to go ya that careful selection is worth the time especially with the more plentiful material.
All that really matters (besides your own personal feelings) is the number on the box. Everyone has a choice and is also regulated by wealth or lack thereof. So, you can sit there and try to convince everybody and yourself which grades you really like. The ones you really enjoy but when Christie Brinkley drives up in a red Ferrari are you gonna turn her down.
We be showing our age.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
You’re right but I would counter more than half the time if you swapped the 66 and the 67 in the holders people would still pay up for the 67 labeled holder. Not all BMWs drive better than all Fords and people who pay large premiums for Incremental quality increases based off of variable opinions don’t always do so wisely esp on other wise common coins like most later walkers.
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Simply because someone will pay multiples more for the highest graded coin or coins even If though those coins are only "a little" better is not necessarily foolish. It is someone who wants the best conditioned coin even if by small amounts. In fact, alot of those collectors have been rewarded by paying multiples more for top pops. Just because you collect in a certain manner doesnt mean those who dont follow your style are fools.
If you are a collector, buy what you like and can afford. If you are a dealer, the game changes and you are in it to make money....Sure, great coins will cost extra... and likely sell for more later on... Define what you are doing and why... then proceed accordingly. Cheers, RickO
Most of us, including myself have to settle somewhere. Remember the 150k Walker that was recently discussed and disputed? I couldn’t afford it and would settle for a 66 but one look and you knew that baby was like a brand new S class Mercedes.
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Buy what you like and can afford.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
There is nothing wrong with a nice 64 or 65. I think many high grade 67 coins (especially common dates) over promoted / hyped high likelihood of falling big time. Go for the coin you like that fills the hole and is sane investment for your budget.
I dont think anyone has ever said there is anything wrong with a nice 64 or 65 (or a nice circulated coin) Some have said there is something wrong with a top pop 67 or 68---and even called such a buyer a fool. I disagree. The same mantra that is said over and over about buy what you like and is within your budget also applies to a top pop 1 if you can afford it and that's what your eye likes.
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