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How are we feeling about overpriced bullion
CopperWire
Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
I think fiat is here to stay and silver is a cumbersome storage of value. It's nice to keep some around but there are better places to store value in today's world. Are those semi-numismatic rounds in various stages of tarnish encased in hydrocarbon containers really worth paying 3 times melt? 
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3x melt i think is extreme. A basic ASE can be found for $9 over spot
Collect what you like
How many times melt is a 1889-CC dollar worth?
Just because it is made of silver durant make it "bullion".
Your premise is flawed.
Fiat may (or may not) be here to stay... However, it certainly has decreased in value... Therefore, PM's can be a hedge for this issue. That being said, paying exorbitant premiums is a choice and certainly not a necessity. Such premiums are usually associated with perceived collector value, not bullion value. Cheers, RickO
I don’t feel silver is over priced if true market conditions apply, which will be tough when organizations like JP Morgan has such a huge influence.
I believe we have been conditioned over the years to pay a small premium over melt (I use to get Ase for $2- over) which was flawed imo because spot is based on future contracts based off of 5000 ounces per contract yet for one ounce i was paying a small premium. People look see what big on-line distributors are selling Ase for expect to pay the “as low as” price. Not realizing that price is based on a monster box.
Dealers where I live use to pay up to five points under melt for 90% and sell for melt or a little under, now those same dealers are paying melt and sell for several points higher.
Also, I view silver coins two ways as generic and numismatic. I keep both types because my generic, like common constitutional 90% silver fluctuates a lot with melt whereas my numismatic (like a Mercury 1916d) are a great hedge against silver volatility. In summary, I like how common silver is decoupling from melt and how silver eagles premiums are still very high (from a historical perspective)
🙂
If you want to buy bullion and collect this material, wait a few years. I have all of the modern, doulble set commemorative coins that came in the wooden boxes except the giant sized one from the Atlanta Olympics that has 32 pieces. I have "paper profits" on almost all of them because of the price of gold. Their value as collectors" items is close to zilch. I bought all of them in the secondary market at less than issue price, except for the Smithsonian set.
I think that if this "1921-CC dollar" ends up selling for the melt price, the economy will be in big trouble, but I wouldn't squirrel away a bunch of them thinking that they are great collectors' item "investments."
$9 over spot is actually very excessive by my way of thinking. To me bullion is bullion and should be priced VERY close to actual silver value.
They ( the mint) do not sell collectibles to the authorized purchasers of bullion. No, they sell that to us at a mark up which makes the APs raise their prices. Why? Because a line forms at the mint to buy these offerings that bury most buyers forever more. Thankfully most collectors only need one. So that price doesn't seem so high.
Personally I'm not a fan of the modern remakes of classics. Zero creativity, under the controls of non numismatic types. And to me , that "CC" looks hideous.
one whatever the mint is putting out is not worth anything to me, two if i want a coin i'll go buy one from a company i deal with a lot, not from the US mint
https://sites.google.com/view/coins-for-sale/home
I wonder who came up with the idea of portraying the "CC" on the coin in that manner? It does look hideous!
And to me , that "CC" looks hideous.
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I agree
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I agree the CC is poorly done. Looks like it's an added "sticker" applied after minting the coin.
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That's not a picture, it's an artists rendition. It remains to be seen what it looks like.
I ordered 1 D and 1 S Morgan. I am locked in to sell them at $125. each once I receive them. Not a bad profit for “overpriced bullion”
Haven’t decided yet whether to flip my 2021 Peace Dollar when it arrives.
Arguably, the .999 silver products from the mint are precisely bullion products...
I was so-so on US Mint products, given their gimmicks and questionable sales practices, etc. But after the last LARGE jump in prices.... their trinkets are way... way more than what I would spend except in unusual circumstances. A lot of other items out there, both classic and modern, are much better in my opinion to spend my money on. But... to each their own. If you like US Mint products.... then certainly buy US Mint products.
I love me some bullion.
I don’t buy non bullion coins. No slabbing necessary unless it is the same pricing.
Esoteric bullion too,! Just no esoteric numismatic collector-only value.
The 2021 Morgan and Peace check the boxes for me. Usually not a collector of the Morgan but this year is special, and fun, with the hard fought battle to order from the Mint. Which is more fun.
I collect coins (modern and classic). I like this coin so I bought it. If I wanted bullion, I wouldn’t buy new releases from the mint, there are many cheaper options at close to melt. If I wanted an investment, I would look to stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. It’s a hobby for me and I am looking forward to enjoying these coins!
I keep stacking and collecting in two separate mental files. There is no way I'm paying anywhere close to 2x for bullion. If you bought silver at $16 plus 3x that's $48. I know you have guest on Kitco talking about $100 silver. Maybe my grandkids will see it but I don't expect to.
Actually, it's not. But, go ahead. The Mint did not sell bullion directly, as they define it. All bullion is sold through the ADs.
Arguably, a 1916-D dime is bullion, but the price is based on perceived numismatic value.
https://catalog.usmint.gov/on/demandware.store/Sites-USM-Site/default/Search-Show?q=Bullion
They forgot the " A " in between
Me I will wait until the price falls below what the mint is charging before I buy any of those Morgan or Peace dollars. If it happens that it never does then OH well. I would rather have a nice Dan Carr piece.
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By the logic of this thread, Dan Carr is selling WAYYY overpriced "bullion".
Yeah, and the CC morgans in question are listed on that page. QED.
@jmlanzaf His pieces have much lower mintage figures and if you get them direct it isn't that bad. What are the mintages on these 2021 Morgans and Peace dollars from the mint?
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And are not designated as bullion. They are in there as a tease to buy. Read the effing words which you cut off intentionally. The words that say that the US Mint does NOT SELL BULLION and directs you to their ADS.
Can it be any LESS ambiguous?
Not my point. Neither one of them are bullion. They are both designed as "collector coins" (or medals).
What the heck are you talking about? My original point:
And the U.S. mint lists those products on the "bullion" page
https://catalog.usmint.gov/on/demandware.store/Sites-USM-Site/default/Search-Show?q=Bullion
So, arguably (and evidently) the U.S. mint considers those to be bullion products. That was and is my point.
I don't know why you are talking about direct sales, I never said a thing about that. And I CERTAINLY do not appreciate your accusation of lying. Take a panama pill or something.
am
Edited to add: Maybe you are saying that the bullion products aren't bullion because they aren't sold directly to the public? Not really following you...
Supply and demand!
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Those are "related" ads along the bottom, not bullion products. The message you get when you search for bullion is the statement I showed you that says the Mint does not sell bullion products. Everything on their site, according to their definition, is NOT a bullion product.
"THE MINT ONLY SELLS BULLION TO AUTHORIZED PURCHASERS." Emphasis mine. NOTHING on their website is bullion, according to them
Ah, i see your specific point. Their website may be confusing, but the actual bullion products do not include anything sold directly to the public. Ok!
Just like the remaking of songs and music. Change the race or gender of the actors or have a younger band sing the song the same way it was done originally. Creativity doesn't exist much now.
I would like to see bullion prices come down, but not a big deal for me as I'm not a PM stacker.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I Don’t worry about it. If I think item too much will not bid.
Plus silver has been going down for sometime.
Won some modern Pcgs69 silver commem $ at BV plus $20 a real bargain vs the classic silver $ which have much higher pops.
What the mint or anyone else calls it doesn't really matter. The price is what matters. JM Bullion has ASE at $35. Silver bars at $26. They can call the ASE's bullion all day long but 50% above spot isn't bullion in my opinion. On the other hand they have GAE at 6% over spot, bars at 4% over spot.
I totally agree with this. There is something about $9 over spot that just rubs me the wrong way. The premiums have actually stopped my bullion purchases when they sky rocketed.