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Your Grade Opinion on This One Please? ----Revealed----

LuxorLuxor Posts: 404 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 25, 2021 5:37PM in U.S. Coin Forum

....came out of an old no line fatty holder

Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

Comments

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS-65

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65.

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65

    Mr_Spud

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS 66

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • SurfinxHISurfinxHI Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll be the guy that says 66, and the original holder said 65.

    Dead people tell interesting tales.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    5 + sticker

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS-66

  • KeshequaKeshequa Posts: 108 ✭✭✭

    66

    Buying and Selling coins for 54 years, 700+ shows in last 20 years, and boy am I tired.
    Purchased and Trademarked the Mohawk Valley Hoard
    Originated the Rochester (NY) Area Coin Expo

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65+

  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought the coin back in 1989 at the ANA convention in an old no line fatty as an MS63 which I thought was at least 1+ point undergraded. I recently sent to PCGS and for whatever reason known only to the braintrust in the grading room thought this piece has altered surfaces.

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I kind of thought that. The cheek looks like something is going on. Maybe a spot removed?

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Quick dip, send it back. That coin should 66.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pmh1nic said:
    MS-65

    If it straight grades, this.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ouch!
    Study it yourself under high mag when you get it back to see if you detect anything fishy.
    If not, consider using acetone or perhaps MS70 to remove that brownish haze; maybe that’s what they don’t like? Maybe they feel something was applied to the surfaces? At this point you have no downside with that coin in a genny holder. If after study you conclude it really can’t be restored, just cut your losses and move on.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Luxor said:
    I bought the coin back in 1989 at the ANA convention in an old no line fatty as an MS63 which I thought was at least 1+ point undergraded. I recently sent to PCGS and for whatever reason known only to the braintrust in the grading room thought this piece has altered surfaces.

    That's a bummer. I've not seen toning like that but there is a lot I haven't seen. It would nice, as part of the service they provide, to tell you what they think was done to the coin to merit the altered surfaces verdict. Beyond that maybe someone could suggest a resource where nondestructive analysis of the surfaces could be done. At a minimum to identify the composition of the toning and any trace compounds/elements that might have been used to alter the surfaces. My personal scanning electron microscope is out for repair (see tongue in cheek).

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks to me as if there has been work done on the ear and cheek close to the ear.... Not sure if tooled or puttied (likely not puttied).... but something was done in that area. Cheers, RickO

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sending it back for conservation to NGC would have made more sense. https://www.pcgs.com/cert/40104989

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2021 9:07AM

    64 - needs a dip. Did it go bad in the holder?

    Would have cracked and dipped before sending in.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭

    remove the putty and then apply a new coating of putty

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,033 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought an altered surface Morgan I didn’t agree with paid $60 for a better date. Sold it to a real nimrod member here for under $100 who doesn’t post anymore and bragged about his great score because now it’s in a 5 holder and worth several hundred bucks. I got tired of him bragging then told him it was in an altered surface holder and this goes to show too much emphasis is put on labels. He raked me over the coals how dare I not mention this fact on eBay. That’s why I sold in on eBay for a bargain that’s where the crap goes NOT here. He gave me neutral feedback. But here’s the best part. He sold it made a few hundred bucks and the coin ends up in a Heritage auction regraded a grade higher and I don’t know what it closed at but was bid over $5k. You think I might be pissed I sold a $5k coin for under $100 not !! I felt like Julie Andrews in the beginning of the Sound of Music skipping and arms flailing in joyful glee because that cheesehead knew I was probably right this coin shouldn’t have been in an altered surface holder and HE missed out on thousands.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Altered surfaces can be a very vague term even used with organic residues. Try acetone. If that doesn’t work try MS70 or a dip and resubmit it.

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe they thought the cheek was just too clean.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I also assumed it was the True View which often doesn’t show luster well, but how is the luster in hand? Surface wise it looks like a 66 to me, but I could see a 64 if it has been dipped out.

  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:
    I also assumed it was the True View which often doesn’t show luster well, but how is the luster in hand? Surface wise it looks like a 66 to me, but I could see a 64 if it has been dipped out.

    I would say the True View is pretty accurate on this one with the reverse being fairly subdued and the obverse almost having the look of a once deeply toned coin that was dipped. I've owned this coin since 1989 and it hasn't changed a bit though.

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2021 5:21PM

    When I first viewed the obverse image and before I read the grading results, my thought was that pretty much the entire face of Liberty looked like it might have been altered/had a substance added, in order to hide flaws. The color looks a little bit light/off. Much of the lower left obverse field looks similar.

    It’s quite possible that those areas have nothing to do with the “altered surface” opinion, but that’s what stood out to me.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    came out of an old no line fatty holder

    this is why you send as a crossover. what is gained by cracking the coin out and submitting it?? nothing. in fact, something is lost. this isn't my advice, it's what HRH said many years ago and he is smarter than almost all of us.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    came out of an old no line fatty holder

    this is why you send as a crossover. what is gained by cracking the coin out and submitting it?? nothing. in fact, something is lost. this isn't my advice, it's what HRH said many years ago and he is smarter than almost all of us.

    Al, David Hall is a smart guy, but he likes to talk. Many people had a much easier time getting in essence, an NGC coin to cross to PCGS at the same grade buy sending in raw, rather than sending it in as a crossover. In thirty years of submitting coins, I have only gotten a same grade cross once, and gave up trying to do this many years ago.

    I've had some of the best in the business tell me that a coin I had in MS 66 was so nice, I'd have a much better chance getting it in an MS 67 holder by sending it in raw, because there was no way it would come back lower than MS 66. Given the value of the coin in MS 66, I didn't have the nerve to go there.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what I meant was that as a crossover the coin would have been straight graded or returned in the old no-line fatty. I think that is better than in a PCGS details holder.

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