How does a coin like this not be graded “Details Cleaned”
Herb_T
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It was graded by NGC AU50. It looks as clean as a baby’s butt after a bath! It clearly has marks from use.
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Overdipped but still has much original luster.
The same way a great many other coins that have been dipped or lightly cleaned get straight graded by the major grading companies. I don’t see anything particularly unusual about that result.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Is NGC less likely to call out Cleaned than PCGS?
Not in my experience, but I’m sure some others - especially on this forum - feel differently.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think the market has made a statement on this with higher sight unseen bids on PCGS vrs NGC graded coins.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Pretty sure if I sent in this coin it would have come back in a body bag.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Of course it has marks from use. It was circulated.
It is market acceptable. Most busts were dipped at some point.
Dipped a lot, wear doesn’t look like cleaning. It is a very old coin and some scratches are to be expected.
I had a PCGS AU50 version of that Bust half that I sold slightly under Greysheet, but it had a mint made flaw. There are many potential issues on 200 year old Bust halves, the question is are you willing to pay for a high end, no problem example?
There was a time when both grading services would have returned that coin ungraded but that ended a couple of decades ago. It was before the term and concept of "market acceptable" was invented.
If it was a modern coin it would get a bodybag. All of the grading services including our host let older coins slide.
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All of the grading services including our host let older coins slide.
A cleaned coin in a TPG holder is still a cleaned coin. I pass on them. Experienced collectors know what they are looking at.
Market acceptable really means market accshleptable to me.Hey, did I just coin a new term?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
A circulated coin will often have circulation scratches on its surface and sometimes these are myriad find lines all over the place. After a coin is dipped these lines can have a tendency to "pop" and appear more easily visible. The coin in the OP has obviously been dipped, and thoroughly dipped at that, but as an AU50 I am not shocked it would have hairlines on it. This does not always indicate a harsh cleaning.
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mr1874 Agree, but many people have a hard time seeing the difference of dipped or cleaned coins.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
The grade is accurate. It’s been dipped white, but there is a fair amount of luster in the protected areas. The purists, who hate dipped coins don’t like it, but it’s the proper grade. If you don’t like it, pass. But don’t condemn it for others.
First of all there's a difference between "cleaned" and "improperly cleaned."
What's acceptable on a circulated coin is entirely different than what's acceptable on an uncirculated coin.
Here’s my 1829/7 MS65 CBH that’s been dipped, but apparently gently enough that it got a CAC. The actual luster is much greater than captured in the TrueView.
I agree with my friend @BillJones who just said “The purists, who hate dipped coins don’t like it, but it’s the proper grade. If you don’t like it, pass. But don’t condemn it for others.”
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Steve, as you know, I’m biased against dipped coins. But that one’s a looker!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It is a coin that I would pass.
For me it's about expectations. I don't expect to see a 200 year old silver coin with absolutely no toning. Every time I looked at it it would be hollering "doctored".
Accraptable perhaps?
Yeah, we need more ways to make fun of the coins some people choose to collect.
Make fun of? Are we on an elementary school playground?
People have preferences for what they collect. We share our opinions about why we collect what we collect, our likes and our dislikes. Does saying you don't like something equate to "make fun of" what someone else collects?
He’s not referring to your posts. My interpretation is he was referring to the recent replies that the posters thought they were funny by using the terms “accshleptable” and “accraptable”. Those replies are indeed making fun of what some people collect.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
What he said.
edited to add... interesting that someone took the comment personally, who it wasn't directed at.
I've seen far worse examples in straight graded holders. Far worse.
Unnatural. Nothing I’d want in my collection. It’s cleaned, but I’ve seen MUCH worse in straight plastic.
Guess we’re back to buying the coin, not the plastic/stickers?
Dave
Actually I didn't take it personally. I was wondering what generated the making fun of comment.
I just don't like the term "market acceptable." Coin is cleaned. Gets straight graded by TPG. Since when did that practice become acceptable and to whom is that acceptable?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
There have always been folks that support net grading, which is a form of this.
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"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
The purist can have that coin. The second I saw that coin, it was a hard pass for me.
Certainly dipped... still some remaining luster.... Grade is fitting...Cheers, RickO
Hideous... stripped of what matters
Market Acceptable? Yes to some
Seems we have the new 2021 poster coin for what is wrong in the hobby.
I would really like to see the before and after pictures as to the dips or whatever was done to this coin. The staring point cannot be as miserable as the ending point.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
If grading by TPG has come to the point of giving an obviously cleaned coin a straight grade, then I'm going to start sending my better metal detector finds in so I can get these pieces in a straight graded holder. What's a few hairlines on a shiny silver coin that has been in the ground for decades?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
One can't help but refer to that example as the quintessential poster boy of inconsistency.
I still maintain it would be beneficial for the TPGs to label only "harshly cleaned" and let the rest go through for the market to decide value or acceptability. Yes, there will still be subjective opinion differences on harshly cleaned as well, but the inconsistencies and confusion will be far fewer, and the integrity of the process will benefit. Not to mention the TPGs would receive gigantic resubmissions on borderline cases.
So many series have been cleaned or wiped and retoned to a large degree. In straight graded holders and market acceptable. Liberty Seated Dollars, CBH to name a few.
I wonder what the comments would be if this coin was in a PCGS slab.
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"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My opinion would not change
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