Rule of thumb when raw is dumb?
moursund
Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
For those who buy raw coins on ebay, is your practice that anything over about $100 should be slabbed? How much "raw nerve" do you have? 
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Comments
It depends on the coin, the quality of the pictures presented, and how confident I am with my knowledge of the series. I would probably go as high as $500 or so raw...maybe.
I've spent low 4 figures...
You can return anything. I don't know why anyone would be afraid.
Have bought four figure coins raw. No fear on this in my series. I would go into five figures if the opportunity presented itself and I was confident in what I saw. I would not buy, say, expensive foreign gold raw, but I can authenticate and grade ok in my areas of expertise. Start with the training wheels on and slowly graduate to more expensive coins once you have gotten feedback on your initial purchases from the market, via selling, tpgs, trusted dealer feedback, etc.
Here is the better way to look at it: does the listing "smell" right? Obvious scams are obvious, "unsearched" rolls, key dates polished or outright fakes. Look for varieties, subtle condition differences, etc. Don't overpay for details coins.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
There seems to be a common theme to a number of your posts. Hypothetical questions about hypothetical situations and asking the kind of questions that require an opinion. Given said opinions a lot of time gets spent looking for exceptions to no avail. I’m just a simple man and enjoy your views. I just get very confused sometimes. Sorry
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Buying raw is often smart and there often opportunities to do so on the darkside.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
From Dealers I trust. There is no limit on raw coins.
For Dealers I don't know I then trust myself (and place limits as I don't trust myself that much!).
peacockcoins
In this case, the question is about people's actual practices and experience... Nothing hypothetical about it. I learn this way... Don't you?
Nothing wrong with raw coins per se, if you know how to grade the coin ... and the amount, for me, would be no more than I would spend on slabbed examples ...
HOWEVER ...
NO ONE can accurately grade from pictures every time. So, when buying on-line over a say, a couple bills?, I prefer to buy my coins graded by a company I trust, who HAS seen them in hand.
And for those who say you can return anything, buying and returning on a regular basis as if everything is "on approval" is what ruins on-line venues for everyone else, whether raw or slabbed.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I do not. We are different and that’s good and there’s room for us all.
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But there is no CAC.
I have made well into 5 figures profit buying raw off eBay with only a few small misses when a grade didn’t come back where I thought it would. A problem that has happened to me just as often when bought in person. There are several (many) on here that have done much much better than me.
But for each one of us that that play the game, we buy what we know and can interpret pictures consistently well. If you don’t know what you’re looking at it doesn’t really matter what or where you buy, you’ll get taken.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
95% of my collection has been purchased raw. Have spent thousands on a raw specimen. Now if it was a series I wasn't up on I would research it first. Plastic slabs as well stickers do not equate any more stafty to me. ....I trust my eye.
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
With my level of knowledge, I have to assume anything raw on eBay is raw for a reason.
Other than mint rarities, one of the best ways to find the proverbial diamond in the rough is to buy raw and slab it. No reward without risk
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Even more an opportunity
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I've bought many $500 coins from forum members and dealers I trust(mostly all gone now). I think it just has to be something you don't normally have a shot at getting or is special and you know the series, then the raw rules don't apply.
Quite a bit of trust involved buying raw coins. The lower the amount the less trust required.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
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Except for the $2.5 Liberty that I bought graded and cracked out, I purchased the coins for the gold page of my 7070 album ($1s; $2.5, $5s, $10s and $20s) ungraded, but that was back when gold was sub-$600.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
I’ve paid over a grand for a few raw coins, and then had them certified. No issues. Both were Large Cents. You just need to careful. Look the coins over very well.
Dave
I Love raw coins they are more fun to look at and hold. @bidask where is this dark side you speak of.
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Foreign/ world coins
I buy raw coins all the time ….
Lots of opportunities if your confident about your grading
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@bidask Thanks. I collect mostly US but if I see any interesting foreign I will buy. I actually got this one really cheaply.
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Don't assume plastic is going to make everything alright either..
Lots and lots of really ugly stuff going stale on eBay (and elsewhere)
You've not only got to to be able to spot problems and be able to grade the series your after, understanding when to pay up for a PQ coin and when to say nah to a bargain coin thats got no eye appeal, whether raw or plasticized is the key.
This is like mine.
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Well looks like you have initiated yourself into the darkside
Maybe sometime hangout at the ancient and world PCGS forum I’m mostly there !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
My raw purchases keep PCGS in business.
I've advised a few collectors to keep them in plastic, yet I crack a few out because some insist on, and prefer raw. It's a win win for third parties. It kinda sucks for middlemen. It's just the job.
Trying to generalize things to a simple statement is difficult. The best answer to this (and many of your questions) is, "it depends".
A lot of points have already been listed. How good are you at spotting cleaned coins? Fakes? Your knowledge of a specific series?
In hand or photos? Are you knowledgeable of how pics/lighting can be manipulated? Can you spot juiced pics?
What are your grading skills? For circulated grades? MS? Ultra high MS?
How many coins have you studied? A few? Hundreds? Thousands? What do the research books and sites say about the coin?
Do you have any experience with the seller? Gut feel, does it look right". There are probably more that I missed.
That's why there are no simple rules of thumb. You can't sit down and study a list of rules for a few minutes, then feel safe going out buying coins. You have to continually build your skills. One of the best ways to learn IMO, is to look at a lot of coins, not searching for shortcuts. It takes time and commitment, but will work much better in the long run.
Just my thoughts
I have purchased raw coins... and would again. However, only coins that I am confident in my knowledge of the series and grading. I have purchase several raw AH Kennedy halves... and will again. CC Morgans are another area I am confident in purchasing raw. Mind you, raw - to me - means seeing the coins in hand... buying from pictures is a separate issue. Cheers, RickO