Does putting insurance on your coin parcel really say "steal me?"

mr1931S

The last package with coin in it that I attempted to receive but didn't because the item was stolen while in the custody of USPS was not insured for extra $ over and above the $50 insurance included in Priority mail. Nothing on the package screamed, "VALUABLES INSIDE! I KNOW the item was stolen.

So what you all think? Does putting insurance on mailed item for full retail value of the item scream, "STEAL ME?"

JJM

I believe it does

ctf_error_coins

Yes.

MWallace

How do you "KNOW" it was stolen?

PerryHall

That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

keets

I think the best "insurance" when mailing a coin(aside from monetary insurance) is a larger, cumbersome package. it's easy to steal a bubble mailer, no so with a one foot square box.

mr1931S

Thank you all for your answers.

How do you "KNOW" it was stolen?

I know the item was stolen because when I opened the Priority box with one end a mess, the inner envelope the coin was shipped in had been neatly slit with a tool, like a scissors. The sender is above reproach. Sender tells me he will no longer send uninsured and signature will be required. I will do the same unless I figure out something more clever to thwart mail thievery.Perry Hall and Keets, good suggestions.

mr1931S

Years ago, when I sent my Barber dime collection to a dealer to purchase, I sent the set Registered Insured. I would guess Registered Insured might scream "STEAL ME! (but you better not, bozo)." Theft of mail is a felony. How wonder how many PO employees are aware of this?

coinbuf

The smart approach is to double box and use private insurance, you cannot completely stop mail theft but there are ways to mitigate the risk.

ricko

When I sold some Britannia gold some years back, I shipped Registered/insured, and in a box about 10x12 inches. Stuffed with paper and bubble wrap to ensure no internal movement. No problem at all. Would do it again. Cheers, RickO

AMRC

We ship coins all the time. Always using Private Insurance and either FedEx or USPS, and nothing on the shipping box that would make anyone think "valuable." Have we lost a few? Yes. Were we covered, yes. That's why we buy the insurance, so we don't have to worry about stuff like this.

PhillyJoe

I cringe at the idea of sending a valuable coin, fully insured, via registered mail as I have to tell the clerk the value of the contents,

jackpine20

I asked for advice at my Post Office about insurance. I was told they will NOT honor a claim for lost or stolen coins and currency with the normal add-on insurance, for example with Priority Mail. They said the only way to buy insurance for rare coins is to step up to Registered mail, but that costs much more and is very slow. They might have mentioned something about private insurance as well. I always ship in a small box rather than an envelope.

micotu

I sent some SAEs to Pinehurst a while back. I did not like that they told me to address it to Pinehurst Coins...

mr1931S

The smart approach is to double box and use private insurance,

Where does one go to get private insurance? Sounds expensive...

MasonG

@jackpine20 said:
I asked for advice at my Post Office about insurance. I was told they will NOT honor a claim for lost or stolen coins and currency with the normal add-on insurance, for example with Priority Mail. They said the only way to buy insurance for rare coins is to step up to Registered mail, but that costs much more and is very slow. They might have mentioned something about private insurance as well. I always ship in a small box rather than an envelope.

The advice you were given was... poor.

4.0 Claims
4.1 Payable Claim
Insurance for loss or damage to insured, COD, or Registered Mail within the amount covered by the fee paid, or the indemnity limits for Priority Mail, or Priority Mail Express (under 4.2), is payable for the following:

For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.

https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

gradeacoinsebay

@mr1874 said:
The smart approach is to double box and use private insurance,

Where does one go to get private insurance? Sounds expensive...

Actually it's much cheaper typically! The USPS rate is very high.

Coin insurers like Hugh Wood have a policy for shipping that you can probably acquire if you have an insurance policy with them for your collection / but definitely you can if you're a dealer.

Shipandinsure is another common site that lets you insure packages on the side as well, though they do have some restrictions on the packaging/sending so be sure to take a look if you use them, think there's a discount for ANA members.

mr1931S

I think ALL priority packages should be weighed and the weight indicated in the tracking information. Weigh the package at point of mailing. Weigh the package at destination. Compare the two weights. Discrepency is investigated by Post Office authorities. Unless PO takes some measure to thwart thievery in its ranks, I see the problem getting worse.

cladking

I used to lose well under 1% of uninsured packages and nearly 2% of insured ones.

I've always suspected that a lot of lost packages were delivered to the "wrong" person. Either they were delivered to someone who opened and kept it only if insured or the recipient got hold of it without signing for it and was dishonest. I think this because most of the uninsured packages that were "lost" were sent to people I had little reason to trust or some reason not to trust.

I'm guessing most "lost" packages were actually delivered but insured ones sent to the wrong person were far less likely to be rerouted than uninsured ones. No doubt the rare postal employee stealing packages goes after the insured ones.

mr1931S

Based on strong evidentiary indicators, my mail carrier has been ruled out as taking the coin I was to receive as his own. The private insurer pool number does not appear to be large.

airplanenut

@mr1874 said:
The smart approach is to double box and use private insurance,

Where does one go to get private insurance? Sounds expensive...

Where you get it depends on how much you ship, but I get mine as a rider on my dealer policy. I pay far less for the whole policy (which covers everything, not just shipping) than I would just buying insurance through the USPS, and I don't have to worry about the extra complications of international insurance or if I use FedEx (rarely do) that they don't cover coins. Except for international packages (which have a customs form) there's nothing indicating any value on anything I send out. In fact, I have "PHOTOGRAPHS: DO NOT BEND" on my shipping labels just to make everything I ship look even more worthless.

jackpine20

@MasonG said:

@jackpine20 said:
I asked for advice at my Post Office about insurance. I was told they will NOT honor a claim for lost or stolen coins and currency with the normal add-on insurance, for example with Priority Mail. They said the only way to buy insurance for rare coins is to step up to Registered mail, but that costs much more and is very slow. They might have mentioned something about private insurance as well. I always ship in a small box rather than an envelope.

The advice you were given was... poor.

4.0 Claims
4.1 Payable Claim
Insurance for loss or damage to insured, COD, or Registered Mail within the amount covered by the fee paid, or the indemnity limits for Priority Mail, or Priority Mail Express (under 4.2), is payable for the following:

For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.

https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

Thank you, @MasonG ! I bookmarked the link. ^^^^ It is very informative.

JimTyler

Yes. I either go with no insurance and lots of tape or a little insurance that says not worth getting fired or going to jail and lots of tape. Never in a small package that can hide under a coat.

MWallace

@mr1874 said:
Thank you all for your answers.

How do you "KNOW" it was stolen?

I know the item was stolen because when I opened the Priority box with one end a mess, the inner envelope the coin was shipped in had been neatly slit with a tool, like a scissors. The sender is above reproach. Sender tells me he will no longer send uninsured and signature will be required. I will do the same unless I figure out something more clever to thwart mail thievery.Perry Hall and Keets, good suggestions.

Have you reported it to postal inspectors?
I'm not saying you, I dont know you, but people can damage and claim package was opened after they receive it themselves. The carrier or clerk should've scanned it damaged? Did they? If not call the Postmaster and ask why it wasn't scanned damaged. Do not speak to anyone else except the Postmaster. Also, file a complaint online. That way it will also be seen by people above the Postmaster. I worked for the post office for 31 years. Coming on here complaining gets NOTHING done to weed out the bad employees, which every profession has BTW.

amwldcoin

All my packages which are trackable show the weight on the receipt I get from the Post Office. I always hand deliver all my shipments to the Post Office and get a receipt. I figure that's 1 less step of risk when shipping.

@mr1874 said:
I think ALL priority packages should be weighed and the weight indicated in the tracking information. Weigh the package at point of mailing. Weigh the package at destination. Compare the two weights. Discrepency is investigated by Post Office authorities. Unless PO takes some measure to thwart thievery in its ranks, I see the problem getting worse.

coinbuf

@mr1874 said:
The smart approach is to double box and use private insurance,

Where does one go to get private insurance? Sounds expensive...

As someone already posted there are a couple of options, I use ship and insure. They have discounts on FedEx shipping and the insurance rates are much lower than USPS rates, in addition this insurance will cover numismatic items unlike the USPS insurance.

ctf_error_coins

All insurance guys are rich as they play the odds.

Because I know this, I self insure 99.9% of my parcels.

I may buy insurance for a 10K coin, but would never buy insurance for 10 separately mailed 1K coins.

jesbroken

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

ctf_error_coins

@jesbroken said:

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

With an invoice.

MasonG

@coinbuf said:
in addition this insurance will cover numismatic items unlike the USPS insurance.

USPS insurance covers numismatic items.

telephoto1

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

Waste of money. You will only get the market value of the item at grade, and if a value guide needs to be consulted they will use the cheapest published number they can find. Just because you insure a $500 item for $2000 doesn't mean you get $2000 if it's lost or stolen. You only get enough to be made whole. OR their definition of whole, if you don't have invoices etc. to show what was paid.

WAYNEAS

I definitely like a small package enclosed in a big box idea.
Wayne

MFeld

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
All insurance guys are rich as they play the odds.

Because I know this, I self insure 99.9% of my parcels.

I may buy insurance for a 10K coin, but would never buy insurance for 10 separately mailed 1K coins.

I'm sure your statement must be accurate, since you didn't exaggerate - not even a little bit. Surely, all insurance guys are rich.

koynekwest

@mr1874 said:
Years ago, when I sent my Barber dime collection to a dealer to purchase, I sent the set Registered Insured. I would guess Registered Insured might scream "STEAL ME! (but you better not, bozo)." Theft of mail is a felony. How wonder how many PO employees are aware of this?

ALL Postal employees are very well aware of this.

koynekwest

@PhillyJoe said:
I cringe at the idea of sending a valuable coin, fully insured, via registered mail as I have to tell the clerk the value of the contents,

Registered mail is extremely secure. I've never had a problem with Registered mail in over 40 years. If it goes missing the last person to sign for it is fully responsible. This is another fact that Postal employees are well aware of.

coinpalice

i asked a postal employee about it one day and she said most postal employees don't even look at how much insurance is on the package, or they don't care

jesbroken

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

With an invoice.

That's fine for sold items, but what about for items being sent for grading?
Jim

ctf_error_coins

@jesbroken said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

With an invoice.

That's fine for sold items, but what about for items being sent for grading?
Jim

Did you not buy it at some point? Have a receipt?

I do not know the USPS policy on a raw coin found in the wild that is worth way more than face.

koynekwest

@jesbroken said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

With an invoice.

That's fine for sold items, but what about for items being sent for grading?
Jim

Properly insure the items. For anything of high value Registered/insured is a must!

micotu

Insure package with 1 troy ounce of dry ice inside for $2000. They weigh it at origin. They weigh it at destination and it is 1 troy ounce less weight. Collect insurance. Repeat. Go to jail.

ms70

I never understood why we have to pay insurance to the people handling our packages to insure it FROM THEM.

MetroD

@MasonG said:
USPS insurance covers numismatic items.

It is important to be mindful of the distinction between coins of "numismatic value" and 'currency/bullion'.

4.1.m - "Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00."
Link

jesbroken

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

With an invoice.

That's fine for sold items, but what about for items being sent for grading?
Jim

Did you not buy it at some point? Have a receipt?

I do not know the USPS policy on a raw coin found in the wild that is worth way more than face.

Then you would value all of your coins sent to be graded as your cost? Even so with graded coins? Ever cherry pick an error coin or doubled die coin and value it at its cost for insurance purposes?
Jim

gumby1234

I recently shipped seven MS67 coins to another member for consideration in his buying them. The tracking said it was delivered to person. He said he hadn't received it. At this point I was worried. The person found the package lying out on his front porch. What if somebody had swiped it from his porch before he had found it. It was insured but as far as the USPS was concerned it had been delivered to a person. How would somebody ever be able to collect on a claim like this if it had disappeared???

MasonG

@gumby1234 said:
How would somebody ever be able to collect on a claim like this if it had disappeared???

They wouldn't be able to.

ctf_error_coins

@jesbroken said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jesbroken said:

@PerryHall said:
That why you should over insure your raw coins. If the coin is an AU coin, value it as an MS63 coin.

How would you prove to the USPS that any value or grade, for that matter, of a raw coin to be correct?
Jim

With an invoice.

That's fine for sold items, but what about for items being sent for grading?
Jim

Did you not buy it at some point? Have a receipt?

I do not know the USPS policy on a raw coin found in the wild that is worth way more than face.

Then you would value all of your coins sent to be graded as your cost? Even so with graded coins? Ever cherry pick an error coin or doubled die coin and value it at its cost for insurance purposes?
Jim

I do not know the answer to that and wondered the same thing.

I can speculate .... A high end photo with a statement from an expert on valuation. Who qualifies as an expert?

MasonG

@jesbroken said:
Ever cherry pick an error coin or doubled die coin and value it at its cost for insurance purposes?

Take a picture of the coin before you put it in the mail.

For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers.

bolivarshagnasty

Does putting insurance on your coin parcel really say "steal me?"
IMO, yes.

koynekwest

@ms70 said:
I never understood why we have to pay insurance to the people handling our packages to insure it FROM THEM.

You seem to imply that Postal employees are just sitting there waiting to steal your package. I've said it before and I'll say it again-theft within the Postal Service is very rare. They are not a bunch of thieves. They undergo background checks and are observed continuously while at work. I'm a Postal retiree and I kinda resent being called a thief.

2ndCharter

Over the past 40 years, I have sent and received SEVERAL HUNDRED Registered and Insured packages via the USPS. Yes, it's slow (one took 17 days to get from New York to Oklahoma) but, without exception, every package always arrived safe and sound.

PhillyJoe

I think the PO is completely different from what it was just a few years ago. Like most businesses.