John Jay Pittman and his collection of extraordinary coins!

Zoins

Two good threads on John Jay Pittman on CoinWeek:

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/a-big-move-for-a-small-coin-the-legend-of-john-jay-pittmans-statue-of-liberty-bidding-strategy/

https://coinweek.com/recent-articles-video/searching-for-a-sleeper-collecting-classic-us-coins/

Perhaps no numismatist was better at identifying sleepers than the late John Jay Pittman (1913-1996). His daughter Polly told me her father used to stay up until two or three in the morning studying auction catalogs and other numismatic reference works. As a result, the story goes, over his lifetime Pittman invested no more than $100,000 in his collection, which sold for over $30 million after his death!

Pittman was a shrewd negotiator, but more importantly, a shrewd researcher. While the benefit of time greatly helped enhance the value of his collection, he made many carefully thought-out purchases of sleepers. A few well-known examples that sold in 1997 during the first installment of the sale of his collection include his purchase at the 1948 ANA convention in Boston of a 1792 Half Disme for $100 that realized $308,000; his 1956 purchase of a Proof 1854 Type 2 Gold Dollar, one of four known, for $525 that realized $176,000; and his purchase of one of two known Proof 1833 $5 Half Eagles for $635 from the 1954 King Farouk sale in Egypt, which realized $467,500. He purchased the 1854 Proof Gold Dollar at the Central States Numismatic Society Convention auction in Indianapolis where, when the lot came up for sale, he walked to the front of the room, faced the crowd, held his arm high in the air to bid, and stared down anyone who dared to bid against him until he won the coin. After that move, he earned the nickname “The Statue of Liberty.”

TurtleCat

The era he collected also helped.

RichieURich

Eric P. Newman did real well too.

CaptainBlunt

John Jay Ford Jr. Ford’s heirs

GoBust

I would think Eric Newman was the most successful financially after he got almost exclusive access to the Col. Green coins. He never needed to compete at auction. He assembled his collection earlier and sold it much later. And of course sold tons of coins he didn't keep for his set.

Zoins

Newman's collection was sold in 11 sales totaling over $76 million. And yes, he held for a very long time.

ColonelJessup

@Zoins said:
Newman's collection was sold in 11 sales totaling over $76 million. And yes, he held for a very long time.

One of the benefits to living until 106, bless 'im

Zoins

@ColonelJessup said:

@Zoins said:
Newman's collection was sold in 11 sales totaling over $76 million. And yes, he held for a very long time.

One of the benefits to living until 106, bless 'im

Definitely. We should all be so lucky! It's amazing when coins are out of the collecting public for multiple generations, even more so when they are held by one person!

tcollects

I heard that guy say unnecessarily mean things to low wage staff

that's how I remember him

tradedollarnut

Eliasberg turned $400k into $44M

tradedollarnut

The Garrett sales grossed $25M. I don’t know how much he spent but based upon the era he was collecting, I suspect way less than $100k

Zoins

@tcollects said:
I heard that guy say unnecessarily mean things to low wage staff

that's how I remember him

Which one?

Coinosaurus

The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

CaptHenway

@CaptainBlunt said:
John Jay Ford Jr. Ford’s heirs

Definitely a contender.

jmlanzaf

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

Pittman actually helped the Rochester coin club by completing their clad proof sets. That was not a good investment.

291fifth

@TurtleCat said:
The era he collected also helped.

This was the real key to his success. He collected in an era of tremendous growth in the hobby and rode the wave to the top because of his careful, research based approach.

Zoins

@291fifth said:

@TurtleCat said:
The era he collected also helped.

This was the real key to his success. He collected in an era of tremendous growth in the hobby and rode the wave to the top because of his careful, research based approach.

It seemed that he also did a lot of studying to find rare pieces. Did other collectors of the time do the same?

291fifth

@Zoins said:

@291fifth said:

@TurtleCat said:
The era he collected also helped.

This was the real key to his success. He collected in an era of tremendous growth in the hobby and rode the wave to the top because of his careful, research based approach.

It seemed that he also did a lot of studying to find rare pieces. Did other collectors of the time do the same?

I'm sure some did but many just let their dealer contacts do the work for them. He operated in the upper end of the coin market where the money was. While he was not super wealthy he did have a very high paying position by the standards of his time. I recall seeing him at shows toward the end of his collecting days and even talked with him at one time. The discussion was actually on displaying paper money and the effect of things like protective holders on the appearance of the paper money. Each layer of plastic would lessen the brilliance of the paper by about 10% is what I recall him saying.

ColonelJessup

@Zoins said:

@tcollects said:
I heard that guy say unnecessarily mean things to low wage staff

that's how I remember him

Which one?

That sounds like John J. Fraud.

ianrussell

I don't think any of the answers above are close to the #1 return in numismatics (percentage-wise or total dollars). We're writing about this currently (coincidentally).

• Ian

johnny9434

@tcollects said:
I heard that guy say unnecessarily mean things to low wage staff

that's how I remember him

sounds like leona helmsly to me,just saying

jesbroken

Just think of what value $100k had pre 1950 and just look at the coin prices of those eras and see what at roughly $1,110,000 today would buy. Era was definitely a defining factor, then add the fact these guys were at the top of their game. Couldn't ask for better odds of success.
Jim

Gazes

@ianrussell said:
I don't think any of the answers above are close to the #1 return in numismatics (percentage-wise or total dollars). We're writing about this currently (coincidentally).

• Ian

Where will your article be to read ?

ianrussell

@Gazes said:

@ianrussell said:
I don't think any of the answers above are close to the #1 return in numismatics (percentage-wise or total dollars). We're writing about this currently (coincidentally).

• Ian

Where will your article be to read ?

I'm going to post it on here and on our website. We're going to publish in about a week or 10 days.

• Ian

cladking

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

Pittman actually helped the Rochester coin club by completing their clad proof sets. That was not a good investment.

I think it's interesting that Pittman's clad coin collection has never been sold.

Of course, maybe the family was just advised to haul it to the bank.

jmlanzaf

@cladking said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

Pittman actually helped the Rochester coin club by completing their clad proof sets. That was not a good investment.

I think it's interesting that Pittman's clad coin collection has never been sold.

Of course, maybe the family was just advised to haul it to the bank.

The family has sold material directly to dealers. Just because it didn't hit an auction doesn't mean it wasn't sold.

Zoins

@cladking said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

Pittman actually helped the Rochester coin club by completing their clad proof sets. That was not a good investment.

I think it's interesting that Pittman's clad coin collection has never been sold.

Of course, maybe the family was just advised to haul it to the bank.

I thought you meant SDB at first to wait for appreciation, and then I as like "oh...."

cladking

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

@jmlanzaf said:

@cladking said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

Pittman actually helped the Rochester coin club by completing their clad proof sets. That was not a good investment.

I think it's interesting that Pittman's clad coin collection has never been sold.

Of course, maybe the family was just advised to haul it to the bank.

The family has sold material directly to dealers. Just because it didn't hit an auction doesn't mean it wasn't sold.

Do you know this for a fact?

I researched this back in '96 and found no evidence it was dispersed at all. There's little doubt that there were all manner of odds and ends accumulated over a lifetime that would have been sold to dealers.

Back in those days a lot of dealers would have hauled clad to the bank after checking the CDN for BU rolls.

jmlanzaf

@cladking said:

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

@jmlanzaf said:

@cladking said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
The stock market at 10% annual return has outperformed most coin collectors. For every Newman and Pittman there's thousands of casual collectors who invested in losers like 1971 proof sets.

Pittman actually helped the Rochester coin club by completing their clad proof sets. That was not a good investment.

I think it's interesting that Pittman's clad coin collection has never been sold.

Of course, maybe the family was just advised to haul it to the bank.

The family has sold material directly to dealers. Just because it didn't hit an auction doesn't mean it wasn't sold.

Do you know this for a fact?

I researched this back in '96 and found no evidence it was dispersed at all. There's little doubt that there were all manner of odds and ends accumulated over a lifetime that would have been sold to dealers.

Back in those days a lot of dealers would have hauled clad to the bank after checking the CDN for BU rolls.

I know that the family has sold material. I know who bought some of it. I don't know specifically about the clad coinage.