New Morgan for my counterfeit collection, with an assist from a friend.

cmerlo1

@shortnock and I were at McBride's here in Austin this morning (we're pretty much there every Saturday morning) looking through the new coins they had purchases. Joan, the owner, brought out some tubes of circulated Morgans, and Harry (@shortnock) began looking through them. As he was doing so, I heard him say "Counterfeit," which got my attention. I asked him what he had and he said it was a 1902 O with a small O. He handed it to me and sure enough, he'd found one. Being a collector of counterfeits and having previously cherrypicked a 1901 Micro O, this would definitely be one of the stars of my collection. He didn't seem very interested in it, so I told him if he didn't want to buy it, I was going to. He indicated he wasn't interested.

Joan heard me getting excited and came over, and I explained to her what it was. She was able to find it in the Top 100 VAM book and was a bit surprised she'd never heard of the Micro O counterfeits before. The book she had was old, and they were still considered genuine at the time.

I made Joan a fair offer, and am now the proud owner of one of the better Micro-O counterfeits. Just for grins, we weighed it and put it on her Sigma PM verifier (see below). I was surprised it tested right in the middle of the 90% range and that it weighed almost exactly 26 grams- a bit light but taking wear into consideration not far out of tolerance. I've now handled or owned examples of the 1896, 1901, and 1902 Micro-O counterfeits, with 1900 being the exception. I'll keep looking, and a big thank you to @shortnock for the assist!

DRUNNER

PM Sent . . . . . .

Drunner

SaorAlba

I presently own all four known dates, including slabbed examples. I still have yet to acquire the PCGS graded example of any of the four dates.

shortnock

Happy for Christian...An exciting morning of 'pickin.

cmerlo1

@SaorAlba said:
I presently own all four known dates, including slabbed examples. I still have yet to acquire the PCGS graded example of any of the four dates.

I joked with everyone that the shop that it would've been even nicer in a TPG slab.

gumby1234

@cmerlo1 Do you only collect those 4 dates in counterfeit Morgans? I have a counterfeit 1900 Morgan.

NumisOxide

Very cool!

Sonorandesertrat

@gumby1234 said:
@cmerlo1 Do you only collect those 4 dates in counterfeit Morgans? I have a counterfeit 1900 Morgan.

There are other counterfeit Morgans with O mint marks that were produced, possibly independently of the micro-O counterfeits. I have an 1899-O counterfeit that was struck on a sterling silver planchet, using hand-made dies.

gumby1234

Here is mine.

DRUNNER

Amended PM Sent . . . . .

Drunner

blitzdude

Got to love the Sigma. Cut that puppy open. Lets see the core.

gumby1234

@blitzdude what is the Sigma?

blitzdude

@gumby1234 said:
@blitzdude what is the Sigma?

The PM verifier that the OP used on the fake in the pictures above. It reported back a genuine 90% US silver coin.

gumby1234

Ok thanks

WAYNEAS

Nice find and nice picture.
Wayne

cmerlo1

@gumby1234 said:
@cmerlo1 Do you only collect those 4 dates in counterfeit Morgans? I have a counterfeit 1900 Morgan.

I collect contemporary and early to mid 20th century counterfeit type coins, including any and all Morgans. Here's one of my favorites, as someone took the time to identify it:

Zoins

Nice addition to your collection!

Will you get it slabbed by ICG?

Should PCGS slab counterfeits like ICG?

cmerlo1

@Zoins said:
Nice addition to your collection!

Will you get it slabbed by ICG?

Should PCGS slab counterfeits like ICG?

I'm considering it. I have a number of really nice pieces I'd like to have in nice holders.

Edited to add: I wish all the TPG's did.

jesbroken

This 1900 Morgan Dollar is currently at auction. I noticed the gap between the eagle and the eagle's wing on the reverse appears larger on the auction coin than CoinFacts. I seem to remember reading that that could be an indication that it was counterfeit as the real Morgan's gap was closer than counterfeits. Just asking. cmerlo...you got me looking at these, now I have to get a book. Drat. Top photo is auction coin and lower photo CoinFacts.
Jim

gumby1234

@jesbroken the eagles head and beak are larger also. Just like the one I have pictured above.

MarkKelley

@jesbroken said:
This 1900 Morgan Dollar is currently at auction. I noticed the gap between the eagle and the eagle's wing on the reverse appears larger on the auction coin than CoinFacts. I seem to remember reading that that could be an indication that it was counterfeit as the real Morgan's gap was closer than counterfeits. Just asking. cmerlo...you got me looking at these, now I have to get a book. Drat. Top photo is auction coin and lower photo CoinFacts.
Jim

There was a new reverse hub introduced for the reverse in 1900 and both types can be found for this year, as well as the next several years. As such, this is not an indicator of whether or not the coin is genuine. In fact, some dies were hubbed with both varieties, creating doubled dies.

gumby1234

@MarkKelley how about having a larger head and beak?

ricko

@cmerlo1... I have a counterfeit 1902 CC Morgan, if you are interested. I purchased out of an antique shop to get it out of the market. I do not collect counterfeits. Let me know... Cheers, RickO

MarkKelley

@gumby1234 said:
@MarkKelley how about having a larger head and beak?

These are but two of the known differences between hubs as well as the space between the neck and wing. There are other differences as well.

jesbroken

What is the best Morgan/Peace Counterfeit Dollar Book?
Thanks,
Jim

HoneyMarket

Wow...
As someone new to this community, I found this thread interesting...although lacking info about these counterfeits.
After a quick Google Search, I found this interesting website about them.
moonlightmint.com/VAM_privately_made/00.htm

How much would one of these counterfeits be worth, if in a graded PCGS holder...before PCGS realized there was a problem with these? I understand that those are the ones with the most value.

From PCGS Press Release:
PCGS has certified 95 of the contemporary counterfeit "Micro O" Morgan dollars over the years:
26 of the 1896-O; 31 1900-O; and 38 1902-O specimens.

TSE

I'm hoping it's not inappropriate for me to ask about a couple Morgans I have within this thread. I've been looking at any information I can find on counterfeit Morgans. I know there are modern fakes with no silver content. I know there are "contemporary counterfeits" that circulated back in the time silver dollars were still used as day to day currency as is being discussed in this thread. What I can't figure out, is what exactly is the coin that I have. Between the two pictured, they are both 1921 San Francisco but one of them has a strange mushy look to it. They both weigh within .35 grams of one another. (26.17 and 26.52) With a fair amount of wear and tear, the weights seem legit. They are sized appropriately, and they both pass the ring test with the bulliontest app. I believe due to these factors, they are both actual silver of the correct content although I haven't had them tested.

Looking at them next to each other, there are many little differences. The dates appear to be thinner numbers on the one on the left. It also has slightly smaller stars, thicker letters in "Liberty," the engraved M is not crisp, the mint mark is also not as crisp, etc. Does this look like a common fake? Is it a modern fake made of silver? If so, would it be a chinese copy? Any information you folks may provide would be greatly appreciated. I received these last year when I bought a bag of junk from a prominent dealer. Imagine my surprise when i got dollars vs dimes, quarters, or halves! I even got a handful that are in very nice condition including one (not uncommon date) that might grade as a MS-63 or so.