1947 Bond Bread Stan Musial!

Vintagehoarder1986

Hello, I am new here. Checked out the forums and figured this would be a neat place to join and try out. I've seen some people post cards here who have had members here help grade their cards. I have two 1947 Bond Bread cards I need help grading. These appear high grade, but one looks MC. Any help is appreciated!

blurryface

best case scenario is yours is a ‘49 and not even a bond bread. worst case scenario its fake.

47 bond breads all had the rounded corners to fit in the bread packaging. the images were used over and over throughout the rest of the 40s thru early 50s.

everywhere from hess shoes to elgee toys:

Vintagehoarder1986

I doubt these are fake. I've owned some fake ones before, and the differences are noticeable. The originals often have print spots on the back and often bleed over from the edges, which these also do. Of the graded versions I've seen, these are labeled as 1947.

blurryface

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:
I doubt these are fake. I've owned some fake ones before, and the differences are noticeable. The originals often have print spots on the back and often bleed over from the edges, which these also do. Of the graded versions I've seen, these are labeled as 1947.

no doubt they are labeled ‘47. that doesnt make it so though.

do you have a blacklight?

eta: reach out to tedzan over at net54. dude is the wizard when it comes to the bond bread issue and its reproductions. and by reproduction, it doesn't mean anything negative as the pics were 1st used by bond but then immediately reused, like many photos were back then, almost immediately for tons of other promotions. tell him bob said hi!

Vintagehoarder1986

These do not fluorescence under black light. These are purple, whereas, the other ones were blue.

Vintagehoarder1986

I'm certain they're original. They were sold to me by reputable sellers I've grown to trust, and have did my own research

blurryface

best of luck and good luck w the grade!

1951WheatiesPremium

Those are not Bond Bread cards; they could be ‘47 cards but probably at little later on, as @blurryface mentioned.

Google ‘Festburg Find’ and you’ll get even more information but as mentioned, the ‘47 Bond Bread had die cut rounded corners. Here’s three cards together which illustrates the point:

Yours is the one at right, I think. While I still have the Yogi, I gave up both of those Jackie’s and a few other nice items in a nice trade for:

1951WheatiesPremium

@Vintagehoarder1986

See above - hope it is helpful as that is my only goal.

Vintagehoarder1986

Yes, I also own the Musial with the rounded corners. Although, it's in rougher shape. I will look into that, it sounds interesting. If you research, though, you'll find some of these that both SGC and PSA have labeled as 1947 Bond Bread Exhibits. PSA only graded one before stopping, though. Not sure why they stopped, unless it was over the forgeries.

Vintagehoarder1986

Cool Gehrig, by the way. I own a Mays Exhibit PSA5.5.

Vintagehoarder1986

It's an early version of his card, too, where he was still with New York before they switched to San Francisco.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

Yes, I also own the Musial with the rounded corners. Although, it's in rougher shape. I will look into that, it sounds interesting. If you research, though, you'll find some of these that both SGC and PSA have labeled as 1947 Bond Bread Exhibits. PSA only graded one before stopping, though. Not sure why they stopped, unless it was over the forgeries.

The actual Bond Bread exhibits are very rare and have the same images but are Exhibit sized (and likely are neither Bond Bread bread nor Exhibit!)

I know PSA doesn’t but I think SGC still grades white backs with die cut corners as ‘47 Bond Bread.

Vintagehoarder1986

Yeah, SGC still grades these. I do see the difference in the backs of what you're referring to. Very confusing, indeed. I will just have to send these in and see what happens. I know SGC is labeling these as Exhibits, but the backs definitely do differ from one to another.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:
Cool Gehrig, by the way. I own a Mays Exhibit PSA5.5.

Love Exhibits…

Vintagehoarder1986

Those are really cool. I too like them. I just mostly collect Willie Mays, though. It became too much to keep up with collecting a large sum of different legendary players. I even owned a 1951 Bowman Mays at one time, but the original owner cut a small portion of it down, so it lost a good portion of its value. I eventually just sold it and stuck to his other cards and Exhibits.

Vintagehoarder1986

Heres my Mays.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:
Those are really cool. I too like them. I just mostly collect Willie Mays, though. It became too much to keep up with collecting a large sum of different legendary players. I even owned a 1951 Bowman Mays at one time, but the original owner cut a small portion of it down, so it lost a good portion of its value. I eventually just sold it and stuck to his other cards and Exhibits.

I like his Yankee rival, Mickey Charles.

Vintagehoarder1986

Nothing wrong with that. I just like Mays, but both are most definitely legends. Mays is still very affordable compared to Mantle, so that's where I been going. As long as I have one of them, I'm happy.

blurryface

a lil rusty, but to throw in another monkey wrench theres also the homogenized bond bread cards which i dont think are even related to the regular bond bread company. if i remember correctly, they are a lil larger, w square corners and a tanner back.

eta: walker cooper is kinda the key to unraveling the mystery. he’s not in the ‘47 bond bread set w rounded borders. but he is in the larger homogenized set and still appears in a yankee uni. he was traded in late ‘49 which is why i suggested in my original post that it was most likely a ‘49. but then yours appears a lil small & white for the homogenized set.

Vintagehoarder1986

@blurryface said:
a lil rusty, but to throw in another monkey wrench theres also the homogenized bond bread cards which i dont think are even related to the regular bond bread company. if i remember correctly, they are a lil larger, w square corners and a tanner back.

eta: walker cooper is kinda the key to unraveling the mystery. he’s not in the ‘47 bond bread set w rounded borders. but he is in the larger homogenized set and still appears in a yankee uni. he was traded in late ‘49 which is why i suggested in my original post that it was most likely a ‘49. but then yours appears a lil small & white for the homogenized set.

You could be right. I'm going to research some more on them, but ultimately, I'm going to let SGC do their thing when I submit them

blurryface

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:
a lil rusty, but to throw in another monkey wrench theres also the homogenized bond bread cards which i dont think are even related to the regular bond bread company. if i remember correctly, they are a lil larger, w square corners and a tanner back.

eta: walker cooper is kinda the key to unraveling the mystery. he’s not in the ‘47 bond bread set w rounded borders. but he is in the larger homogenized set and still appears in a yankee uni. he was traded in late ‘49 which is why i suggested in my original post that it was most likely a ‘49. but then yours appears a lil small & white for the homogenized set.

You could be right. I'm going to research some more on them, but ultimately, I'm going to let SGC do their thing when I submit them

original 48 card, rounded set checklist: (no walker)

Rex Barney
Yogi Berra
Ewell Blackwell
Lou Boudreau
Ralph Branca
Harry Brecheen
Primo Carnera
Marcel Cerdan
Dom DiMaggio
Joe DiMaggio
Bobby Doerr
Bruce Edwards
Bob Elliott
Del Ennis
Bob Feller
Carl Furillo
Joe Gordon
Sid Gordon
Joe Hatten
Gil Hodges
Tommy Holmes
Larry Jansen
Sheldon Jones
Eddie Joost
Charlie Keller
Ken Keltner
Buddy Kerr
Ralph Kiner
Jake LaMotta
Johnny Lindell
Whitey Lockman
Joe Louis
Willard Marshall
Johnny Mize
Stan Musial
Andy Pafko
Johnny Pesky
Pee Wee Reese
Phil Rizzuto
Aaron Robinson
Jackie Robinson
Johnny Sain
Enos Slaughter
Vern Stephens
George Tebbetts
Bobby Thomson
Johnny Vander Meer
Ted Williams

Vintagehoarder1986

I do definitely see the size difference between the two. The Exhibits are definitely bigger. I also have Ted Williams in this set, but these don't seem to be as valuable as some of the other issues. It could just be the controversy surrounding them, but at the same time, I also picked up the clipped corners white back Musial for just 40.00.

blurryface

i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Vintagehoarder1986

@blurryface said:
i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Oh, yeah, and OPC is the same way. It's just that, theres information readily available for that stuff, so everybody knows what they're looking at, despite the slight differences. The main problem with these Bond Bread releases, is that there's little information, and what information is found on them, can be debatable because there seems to be no concrete information. Not many people still around to even recall buying this stuff from back then, so most of what is found is just speculation.

Vintagehoarder1986

It doesnt stop it from being cool and collectible, but it does create mass confusion. I can see if collectors avoid the set, as there definitely is too much controversy surrounding it. To top it off, you have the fake Musials, which I've seen most graded by FGA. All have been fake. This just adds confusion and big problems to collectors.

blurryface

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:
i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Oh, yeah, and OPC is the same way. It's just that, theres information readily available for that stuff, so everybody knows what they're looking at, despite the slight differences. The main problem with these Bond Bread releases, is that there's little information, and what information is found on them, can be debatable because there seems to be no concrete information. Not many people still around to even recall buying this stuff from back then, so most of what is found is just speculation.

thats why i was saying reach out to tedz over at n54. his dad owned a sandwhich shop that used bond bread. 😉

i can tell ya after 5 mins of talking with him, youll put aside all the hobby “given” folklore.

Vintagehoarder1986

@blurryface said:

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:
i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Oh, yeah, and OPC is the same way. It's just that, theres information readily available for that stuff, so everybody knows what they're looking at, despite the slight differences. The main problem with these Bond Bread releases, is that there's little information, and what information is found on them, can be debatable because there seems to be no concrete information. Not many people still around to even recall buying this stuff from back then, so most of what is found is just speculation.

thats why i was saying reach out to tedz over at n54. his dad owned a sandwhich shop that used bond bread. 😉

i can tell ya after 5 mins of talking with him, youll put aside all the hobby “given” folklore.

I will definitely check it out. This has me curious as to where these originated from now.

blurryface

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:
i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Oh, yeah, and OPC is the same way. It's just that, theres information readily available for that stuff, so everybody knows what they're looking at, despite the slight differences. The main problem with these Bond Bread releases, is that there's little information, and what information is found on them, can be debatable because there seems to be no concrete information. Not many people still around to even recall buying this stuff from back then, so most of what is found is just speculation.

thats why i was saying reach out to tedz over at n54. his dad owned a sandwhich shop that used bond bread. 😉

i can tell ya after 5 mins of talking with him, youll put aside all the hobby “given” folklore.

I will definitely check it out. This has me curious as to where these originated from now.

please keep this thread updated w what ya find too. the size difference has me intrigued. for the record, i do think yours is period accurate by the pixelation.

Vintagehoarder1986

@blurryface said:

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:
i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Oh, yeah, and OPC is the same way. It's just that, theres information readily available for that stuff, so everybody knows what they're looking at, despite the slight differences. The main problem with these Bond Bread releases, is that there's little information, and what information is found on them, can be debatable because there seems to be no concrete information. Not many people still around to even recall buying this stuff from back then, so most of what is found is just speculation.

thats why i was saying reach out to tedz over at n54. his dad owned a sandwhich shop that used bond bread. 😉

i can tell ya after 5 mins of talking with him, youll put aside all the hobby “given” folklore.

I will definitely check it out. This has me curious as to where these originated from now.

please keep this thread updated w what ya find too. the size difference has me intrigued. for the record, i do think yours is period accurate by the pixelation.

I too am curious. No username was found. Theres a Tedzan, but no Tedz. I can try Tedzan, if that is him?

blurryface

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:

@Vintagehoarder1986 said:

@blurryface said:
i went thru all of this several years back when i was locking down the jackie robinsons. talk about being super confused. and this was when they were super cheap. i know you dont know me from adams, but i can tell you i spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the mystery, and still havent figured it all out. i think i got the basics down, but something could arise or surface tomorrow to flip it all on its head. hopefully it helps and not ideal in hearing that it might not be a true ‘47 bond bread. i only say this bc ive been there. and it takes nothing away from the dealer, psa or sgc from being reputable at all. its always kinda just been a given that they are all 47 bond breads. kinda similar to 86 topps traded looking like 86 topps traded tiffany. sure, they both are topps, use the exact same pics but are two very different products.

Oh, yeah, and OPC is the same way. It's just that, theres information readily available for that stuff, so everybody knows what they're looking at, despite the slight differences. The main problem with these Bond Bread releases, is that there's little information, and what information is found on them, can be debatable because there seems to be no concrete information. Not many people still around to even recall buying this stuff from back then, so most of what is found is just speculation.

thats why i was saying reach out to tedz over at n54. his dad owned a sandwhich shop that used bond bread. 😉

i can tell ya after 5 mins of talking with him, youll put aside all the hobby “given” folklore.

I will definitely check it out. This has me curious as to where these originated from now.

please keep this thread updated w what ya find too. the size difference has me intrigued. for the record, i do think yours is period accurate by the pixelation.

I too am curious. No username was found. Theres a Tedzan, but no Tedz. I can try Tedzan, if that is him?

thats him.

Vintagehoarder1986

I tried,but says they aren't accepting messages.

blurryface

pm’d with the email i had. been a few years, but something tells me he doesnt change things up too much.