Top 3 switch hitters of all time

Goldenage · July 19, 2021 2:09PM

This should be interesting.

Who will get the top spot ?

Who are in the top three ?

LandrysFedora · July 19, 2021 2:29PM

Mickey Mantle 2. Chipper Jones 3. Eddie Murray

Justacommeman · July 19, 2021 2:30PM

Mantle
Rose
Chipper Jones

I could easily be talked into Murray at #3

m

LandrysFedora · July 19, 2021 2:32PM

@Justacommeman said:
Mantle
Rose
Chipper Jones

I could easily be talked into Murray at #3

m

How could I forget Pete? I might have to move Eddie to #4.

JRR300 · July 19, 2021 5:30PM

Mantle
Rose
Murray. 500HR's, 3000+ hits with a .280+ average ekes out Chipper.

Tabe · July 19, 2021 5:47PM

Chipper has a significantly higher avg, OBP & OPS+ over Murray as well as much higher single season peaks so:

1) Mickey
2) Chipper
3) Eddie

Pete is a big, big drop from the above 3.

1951WheatiesPremium · July 21, 2021 2:58AM

I suppose that Roberto Alomar and Tim Raines deserve a mention, though I think you guys got the top 3/4 guys already…

orioles93 · July 21, 2021 8:30PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I suppose that Roberto Alomar and Tim Raines deserve a mention, though I think you guys got the top 3/4 guys already…

Agreed. Top 4 are pretty straight forward. Mantle, Rose, Murray, Jones. I would say Alomar, Raines, and Beltran would come next.

Mickey71 · July 21, 2021 11:22PM

Yes, need 4 spots. Like all 4 selections.

JoeBanzai · July 22, 2021 6:30AM

Pete Rose in the top three?

I was a big Pete Rose (as a player, after that not at all) fan, but it would seem that there are a few people who are much bigger fans than I ever was.

I took a quick look at a bunch of switch hitters and Rose belongs at #12.

I did not take longevity into consideration.

My top three are;
Mickey Mantle
Chipper Jones
Lance Berkman

Then I plugged Pete Rose in the equation and kept going until I got to him;
Reggie Smith
Carlos Beltran
Eddie Murray
Bernie Williams
Ken Singleton
Tim Raines
Roberto Alomar
Ted Simmons
and here he is at #12
Pete Rose
Ruben Sierra

BillJones · July 27, 2021 3:22AM

Not in the top three, but if you want to mention a player who was mentioned from “olden times” when I was a kid buying Fleer old timers cards, Frankie Frisch.

JoeBanzai · July 27, 2021 4:29AM

Frankie Frisch's OPS and SLG were higher than Rose's.

1951WheatiesPremium · July 27, 2021 5:01AM

@JoeBanzai said:
Pete Rose in the top three?

I was a big Pete Rose (as a player, after that not at all) fan, but it would seem that there are a few people who are much bigger fans than I ever was.

I took a quick look at a bunch of switch hitters and Rose belongs at #12.

I did not take longevity into consideration.

My top three are;
Mickey Mantle
Chipper Jones
Lance Berkman

Then I plugged Pete Rose in the equation and kept going until I got to him;
Reggie Smith
Carlos Beltran
Eddie Murray
Bernie Williams
Ken Singleton
Tim Raines
Roberto Alomar
Ted Simmons
and here he is at #12
Pete Rose
Ruben Sierra

No Pete Rose fan here either.

That said, if no player in baseball history has more hits than you and you were a switch hitter, it is difficult for me to leave that player off of a top 3 list.

And I fully appreciate your compiled list as Eddie Murray easily takes the four slot on my list; a major omission on my part.

JoeBanzai · July 27, 2021 10:50AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
>

That said, if no player in baseball history has more hits than you and you were a switch hitter, it is difficult for me to leave that player off of a top 3 list.

His .409 SLG means (to me) he wasn't a very good hitter. His SLG was the lowest of all the switch hitters listed and his OPS was higher than just one, Ruben Sierra, who had a much higher SLG.

956 players have hit for a higher SLG in major league history, 179 have a higher lifetime BA and 228 have better OB%
>

And I fully appreciate your compiled list as Eddie Murray easily takes the four slot on my list; a major omission on my part.

>
Glad you liked the list.

Rose was the best player at one thing; playing more games than anyone else, that's a tremendous accomplishment, but to me that doesn't make him the best anything else unless he's got higher averages.

To be fair, had I given more credit for longevity, Rose has got to go higher.

I eliminated the players with less than 10,000 PA (in doing so, we lose Mantle, so now the list is pretty meaningless) and Pete is #7, out of 7.

Then the players with less than 10,500 PA and Pete jumps to #4 out of 4.

Then the players with less than 11,000 PA and Pete makes the top three behind Carlos Beltran and Eddie Murray.

The best I can do for Pete is to say he was the eighth best switch hitter of all time if we keep Mantle at #1 with his 9910 PA (and we must!).

My new list would be;
Mantle
Chipper
Murray/Beltran
Beltran/Murray
Frisch
Alomar
Raines
Rose

blurryface · July 27, 2021 11:22AM

from a cardboard perspective:

57t - hank aaron
89u - dale murphy
90d - juan gonzalez

1948_Swell_Robinson · July 27, 2021 11:56AM

Longevity muddles it a lot...so looking at them at their best six year peaks:

Without going deeper and looking at the more minute factors such as their lineups and ease of the era to hit(like the live ball era), here is the main thrust of their rates and totals.

Mantle 185 OPS+. WPA 40.3.
Murray 152 OPS+. WPA 29.8
Chipper 152 OPS+. WPA 27.1
Rose 139 OPS+. WPA 25.3
Beltran 136 OPS+ WPA 20.9

Ranking would be Mantle, Murray, then Chipper as the top three.

Rose's long career sometimes hides how good he was in his prime. His prime was excellent, but not as good as Murray's or Chipper's.

Murray dominated a little better than Chipper.

Murray top finishes in the league in WPA was 1st, 1st,1st, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th.
Chipper top finishes in the league in WPA was 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th.

blurryface · July 27, 2021 12:48PM

@Tabe said:
Chipper has a significantly higher avg, OBP & OPS+ over Murray as well as much higher single season peaks so:

1) Mickey
2) Chipper
3) Eddie

Pete is a big, big drop from the above 3.

i want to argue this one while boring @Justacommeman in the process, but this list is pretty good w me! 😉

Justacommeman · July 27, 2021 4:00PM

I hate Pete Rose. But he is the all time hit leader. He has to be in the top three.

m

JoeBanzai · July 27, 2021 9:46PM

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

>

Rose's long career sometimes hides how good he was in his prime. His prime was excellent, but not as good as Murray's or Chipper's.

True, he had 2 fantastic years, 5 really good years and about 9 average/above average years. Very few players can say that they had 16 HOF caliber seasons.

However he also had about 8 very average years and the last 4 were pretty horrible. If you're going to need those years to be the "Hit King" you have to count them towards his overall hitting. You can't have it both ways.

For me a singles hitter, with a relatively low batting average and a pretty weak Slugging Percentage isn't in the top 3 no matter how many hits he got. BTW I always liked Pete as a player and separate that from what a complete horror he is as a human being.

Let's not forget he is also the "Outs King", making more outs than anyone in MLB history.

OPS+ is much kinder to Pete than OPS. Pete had one season over .900 OPS and Carlos had five.

I can't stand OPS+;

Pete in 1972, 134 OPS+, 731 PA, .799 OPS, stole 10 bases and caught 3 times and had 269 TB. Playing CF.
Carlos in 2004, 133 OPS+, 708 PA, .915 OPS, stole 42 bases and caught 3 times and had 328 TB. Playing LF.

Carlos was competing against Bonds, Pujols and another 8 hitters with over a 1.000 OPS while Pete was competing against Johnny Bench and Billy Williams, with Billy the only hitter over 1.000.

Just how's Pete's year better? Because the rest of the leagues hitters were worse? Makes no sense to me.

SLG was no contest with Carlos' lifetime .486 beating Pete's .409 by a huge 77 point margin.

Tabe · July 28, 2021 9:40AM

@JoeBanzai said:

Pete in 1972, 134 OPS+, 731 PA, .799 OPS, stole 10 bases and caught 3 times and had 269 TB. Playing CF.
Carlos in 2004, 133 OPS+, 708 PA, .915 OPS, stole 42 bases and caught 3 times and had 328 TB. Playing LF.

Because I'm the nitpick guy:

You've got their defensive positions reversed. Pete played LF in 1972, Carlos played CF in 2004.

JoeBanzai · July 28, 2021 9:13PM

@Tabe said:

@JoeBanzai said:

Pete in 1972, 134 OPS+, 731 PA, .799 OPS, stole 10 bases and caught 3 times and had 269 TB. Playing CF.
Carlos in 2004, 133 OPS+, 708 PA, .915 OPS, stole 42 bases and caught 3 times and had 328 TB. Playing LF.

Because I'm the nitpick guy:

You've got their defensive positions reversed. Pete played LF in 1972, Carlos played CF in 2004.

Yes, a blunder on my part. Put positions in at the last minute and didn't check it before running out the door.

I think I did alright on pointing out how OPS+ just doesn't work when comparing players who played against different players.

Tabe · July 29, 2021 2:49PM

@JoeBanzai said:

Yes, a blunder on my part. Put positions in at the last minute and didn't check it before running out the door.

I think I did alright on pointing out how OPS+ just doesn't work when comparing players who played against different players.

I'll forgive this blunder but let's not make it a habit

I think OPS+ is very useful but as you pointed out, it can be unfair because of who is hitting around the league at the same time.

Top 3 switch hitters of all time

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