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PSA Slab Newton's Rings
RYANTOLLY
Posts: 2 ✭
I received these back, and it looks like my stickers are underwater in the PSA Slab. I contacted customer service and they aren't going to do anything for me, as they said it's called newton's rings and it's normal. Would you be happy with that response? I feel ripped off with after showing people it, am I just being unreasonable?
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It plagues comic books too.
True. I've got a couple of newer CGC graded comics that pretty much look like the card in question.
Can you please take a picture of it “straight on” (or even better a scan) and post it?
Yes, I can see the rings from that angle.
It is not uncommon with ‘thin’ issues to require an insert to help hold the item in place within the holder.
Is this the first item you’ve ever sent? Or first “thin” item?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
17-18 & 18-19 prizm are notorious for this problem. especially in the southeast.
try a bag of rice for a couple of days.
but usually it's the reaction between psa's sleeve and the coating on the cards.
That’s exactly what it is. It results from contact between two different types of plastic. In the case of the CGC holder it is the inner well that contains the comic contacting the hard outer shell of the slab.
its not moisture. that won't help unfortunately. its physics.
myslabs.to/smzcards
I have had this happen with some panini stickers recently and then I received a trading card with this issue the other night as well. I thought it may just be an issue with the stickers but the trading card debunked that idea. I had not seen this be an issue before. I made a trade with a friend and the stickers had a little bit of this issue and he wasn't happy and we nearly reversed the trade we made. I hope that this can be fixed in the future. I understand your frustration.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Do you think this could be due to the plastic supply chain being disrupted and the plastic being used now is not as good of quality as what was used before?
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I think in this case it is just the coating of the encapsulated card that is behaving as a 2nd plastic contacting the case. This would not happen with normal cards.
physics? because they are “newton” rings, right? 😉
chemistry maybe. but ok, doesnt help. theres humidity everywhere. the chemistry cling traps that air. not to mention helps breakdown the chemical composition which pretty sure might be soluble & contains pvc which breaks down rather easily under these circumstances. and not sure if newton rings effect comics, but they can & most certainly will damage the surface of glossy cards.
what do you suggest he do? leave as is? rocket into space? we've gone down this road before. instead of criticizing, do you have anything to contribute? what's your experience in dealing with this problem? perhaps do a search on what the chemical compound for the gloss found in modern cards along with that of the pvc used to create 9 pocket holders, penny sleeves, top loaders and a million other things pvc is used for. you'll find gas & water are two of the main ingredients. moisture comes from? either water itself or a byproduct of chemical breakdown.
btw: you were completely wrong in your blowout assessment to. funny how that card was a 17-18 prizm like i just so happened to mentioned above. 😂
and if youve dealt with them on cards before, then youre more than aware that its leaves a trace residue. a gluey sticky like compound that is not easily wipeable. well it is, if you do it gently and correctly. it also helps to sit out by a heat source to dry the card off before trying to immediately wipe it clean.
call it what ya want. im no chemist but im pretty sure physics has nothing to do with it.
It's not to do with humidity or any kind of residues left in the holder, it's all about how light behaves when passing through different materials that are touching, it's 100% physics:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_rings
I've got a $3000 CGC graded comic that looks like it has an oil spill on the cover, I feel the OP's frustration but they can take comfort in knowing the card is fine and well protected.
@blurryface
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
wrong. would you like me to send you a few cards damaged by them? pm me your address.
eta: again, we aren't talking comics here. and your wiki hyperlink is the definition of the term. just because the term is applied from the comic side does not mean it coincides and is the perfect term for what is happening in ops card. i can assure you what is happening most certainly is causing damage and has nothing to do w light traveling thru. it's a chemical reaction from the pvc sleeve and the gloss of the card much like window tint applied to glass. in fact it looks much more like what happens when oil is mixed with water than the physics that create newton rings. and what do they say about oil (pvc) and water? they don't mix.
you know what op, your card is fine. nothing to worry about. it looks completely normal and you shouldn't be worried about it one bit. even with the lights out, it still has the same effect. you should actually be happy. this physics sorcery only happens to a select few cards. much like the movie avatar, this particular ring chose you. you should be honored. best of luck gentleman. i wish you all baskets of newton rings on all your cards.
even if there is a small amount of moisture or oil residue from fingerprints on the card or slab, I dont think leaving it in rice would help due to the ultrasonic seal. the card would likely need to be cracked out, wiped clean and reholdered.
I was able to recreate the effect using moisture on a chrome card and an old SGC slab. however, even after the card was wiped dry, it still was able to produce a newton ring. humidity trapped in the slab may indeed exacerbate it, but even when its wiped, it can still happen.
the OP should take a hair dryer on low heat and see if they can eliminate the rings if indeed its moisture trapped in there. Im willing to think it may not be moisture, but some other stuff on the surface of the slab from manufacturing.
and yes its physics, not necessarily chemistry. its mostly due to refraction of light on two surfaces and not the chemical reactions between them.
here is a brand new card saver I just pulled from the pack, exhibiting newton rings. there no moisture in there. just how the two sides are pressed together.
myslabs.to/smzcards
Maybe what’s happening with his card is not Newton Rings. You sound like you have experience with it, maybe that term was misused by PSA. However, the comics certainly are not negatively affected, I have cracked out many and there is no trace of any damage.
@dictoresno1 first of all i would never take a hair dryer to a sticker. very bad advice, imo. you also are continuing to use words like “think” or “dont think”. i am not “thinking”. i know on this one. maybe youre going so hardcore on a rebuttal is because of how wrong you were on the blowout thread a year ago. youre actually doing a disservice to collectors telling them they have nothing to worry about based of what you “think” or have “heard”.
as for the topic, i have a ton of experience in it. and for what i collect it only seems to happen on 2017 - 2018/19 panini products. and as most of you know i collect a pretty wide arrange of stuff.
the visual effect could very well be described as newton rings. theres also a chemical reaction occurring without a doubt. however do not discount the fact that just bc this does not effect comics that you have nothing to worry about. it might actually only be newton rings in comics. i dont know. im wise enough to admit i dont know there and more than secure w paulmauls resume in that department to believe him.
folks here, including psa should also stop perpetrating that this does not harm the card based solely off the fact that it does not effect comic books. just because it looks similar does not make it equal. gold vs fools gold. its all shiny, glittery, looks the same and both found in the ground, right? however they are consisted of two entirely different compounded make ups.
i am in maine, but will be more than happy to post stacks of ruined prizm from being toploaded w cheap penny-sleeves & high humidity being the only culprits when i get back.
eta: this is basically the same effect that happens to ‘91 bowman wax after sitting thru heat and humidity. im sure superman could see through the cardboard stock and tell us he can see newton rings too. but what is really happening is a chemical breakdown in the clear gloss’s components causing severe damage that only worsens with time as it continues to breakdown with heat & humidity seriously playing a fundamental role in the process.
perhaps you can show me where I was so wrong? and honestly, if its one thing ive learned about you, is you insist all the time that you know so much and are constantly engaging people in a very slick toned and rude demeanor, which is I think why alot of people just chose to not even respond to you leaving you to think you are correct when may the exact opposite.
we may not see eye to eye on some things. ive never said I was an expert, which is why I may use terms like "think" when offering my opinions. and I said to use a hair dryer on low heat, not blast it with a torch.
I find myself again in a thread you have come into and honestly I choose to longer be a part of. not because I fear im wrong, but you seem to not want to accept that others may have opinions differing from your own and cannot seem to have a reasonable conversation without putting down others.
myslabs.to/smzcards
It would actually help to post up some pictures of the cards you are using as a reference to the damage caused by the plastics so that the OP can compare his card to yours.
I'm just basing this off my experience with Newton rings which is caused by plastic on plastic, and that does indeed look like oil on water, that very well could be the case here, but more evidence is needed, your pictures could help.
I think one clear difference from the comic book situation is that there the Newton rings are caused by contact between two plastic surfaces, neither of which is the comic book itself. So even if there were a chemical reaction between them, it doesn’t seem as though the comic would be impacted.
Here, the card itself is one of the surfaces creating the Newton ring contact.
I'm shutting this down because the argument has taken an unnecessary turn towards the personal. No need to get upset with each other in such a situation. However, I am forwarding the thread to others in the office who know more about our holders than I, and might have a better idea about this type of thing.