Trying out my new macro lens. A few ok photos. Need help lol

NumisOxide

Using an old school D200 but finally have a real macro lens to use. A Tokina atx-i 100mm F2.8FF. Definitely need some guidance on how to get better pics and set the camera settings. These are unedited except for resizing, cropping, merging. I'm using two Ikea gooseneck lights but every time I get some good lighting on the coin, the picture is so washed out. Thanks for any pointers!

Here's my current setup. I did try wrapping some tissue paper around the lights to diffuse them but not much difference.

ricko

The first two seem to have too much light, the third looks great. The fourth coin could benefit from more light or a better lighting angle. I am no expert at photography - very far from it. But those are my impressions. Cheers, RickO

DelawareDoons

You have to diffuse those Ikea Jansjos. For an idea, try getting a few paper towels, folding them up, then taping them over the end of the light. It'll diffuse it nicely. Also, back them off, you've got them too close.

LanceNewmanOCC

the darker the room the better until you get good.

there are 2-3 settings that can adjust how much light comes into the camera, once you tweak those and get the proper lighting angles/heigh/position etc, you're gold.

if you have a few extra bucks, pick up a shutter release remote.

DelawareDoons

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
the darker the room the better until you get good.

there are 2-3 settings that can adjust how much light comes into the camera, once you tweak those and get the proper lighting angles/heigh/position etc, you're gold.

if you have a few extra bucks, pick up a shutter release remote.

Better yet, shoot tethered to a laptop with preview.

TurtleCat

• Diffuse the lights. You can be cheap and use bleached coffee filters
• Turn off Auto ISO on camera, use ISO 100 only
• Switch to Manual exposure mode
• For starters: set aperture for f10 and shutter speed to 1/60. Change shutter speed as you find the pictures lighter/darker to your taste
• A dimmer working environment helps a lot but once your shutter speed reaches 1/125 or faster it isn’t as important
• Use a multi-angle bubble level to ensure your camera is as parallel to the surface as possible
• Look at the coins in slabs, you may need to shim to get the slab angled well
• Make sure to manually white balance. Absolutely essential to a good result.
• Last one: Try having your lights be as parallel as possible to the macro lens and touch as closely as possible. You’ll still need adjustments but it makes a world of difference

Good luck!

NumisOxide

Great! > @DelawareDoons said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
the darker the room the better until you get good.

there are 2-3 settings that can adjust how much light comes into the camera, once you tweak those and get the proper lighting angles/heigh/position etc, you're gold.

if you have a few extra bucks, pick up a shutter release remote.

Better yet, shoot tethered to a laptop with preview.

I wasn't sure the d200 was capable of that. Will look into what I need for that.

NumisOxide

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
the darker the room the better until you get good.

there are 2-3 settings that can adjust how much light comes into the camera, once you tweak those and get the proper lighting angles/heigh/position etc, you're gold.

if you have a few extra bucks, pick up a shutter release remote.

Will check on that too. Thanks.

@DelawareDoons said:
You have to diffuse those Ikea Jansjos. For an idea, try getting a few paper towels, folding them up, then taping them over the end of the light. It'll diffuse it nicely. Also, back them off, you've got them too close.

Tried using paper towels and tissue paper. Will give another go. Thank you.

@ricko said:
The first two seem to have too much light, the third looks great. The fourth coin could benefit from more light or a better lighting angle. I am no expert at photography - very far from it. But those are my impressions. Cheers, RickO

Totally agree. Thanks .

.> @TurtleCat said:

• Diffuse the lights. You can be cheap and use bleached coffee filters
• Turn off Auto ISO on camera, use ISO 100 only
• Switch to Manual exposure mode
• For starters: set aperture for f10 and shutter speed to 1/60. Change shutter speed as you find the pictures lighter/darker to your taste
• A dimmer working environment helps a lot but once your shutter speed reaches 1/125 or faster it isn’t as important
• Use a multi-angle bubble level to ensure your camera is as parallel to the surface as possible
• Look at the coins in slabs, you may need to shim to get the slab angled well
• Make sure to manually white balance. Absolutely essential to a good result.
• Last one: Try having your lights be as parallel as possible to the macro lens and touch as closely as possible. You’ll still need adjustments but it makes a world of difference

Good luck!

Ok awesome will try those great tips. Appreciate it.👍

BryceM

I have 10,000 posts here. Probably 50 of them say this:

Get Mark Goodman's book, Numismatic Photography. It's the Bible as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, just get it, read it, and then read it again.

What others have said about lighting is good, but your focus isn't very precise either. Fortunately, it's one of the easier things to fix. Don't use autofocus. This is one area where working live on the computer screen really helps. If it isn't focused perfectly, it will never look good.

TurtleCat

Totally agree, don’t use autofocus. Manual focus is the only way to go. This is where the older cameras hurt as you do not get good feedback on it as you focus. It will take some experiments.

Since you’re using a Nikon, look up exposure delay mode. Should solve the need for a remote shutter release easily enough. I have mine set for 3s.

One more thought on focus with older cameras… use the date as the place to look as you focus. If you go very slowly you should see the date suddenly in focus and some die lines from the date. Odds are you’ll have the whole coin in focus. Not a 100% guarantee but I find it helps often as a starting point.

Desert Moon

@BryceM said:
I have 10,000 posts here. Probably 50 of them say this:

Get Mark Goodman's book, Numismatic Photography. It's the Bible as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, just get it, read it, and then read it again.

What others have said about lighting is good, but your focus isn't very precise either. Fortunately, it's one of the easier things to fix. Don't use autofocus. This is one area where working live on the computer screen really helps. If it isn't focused perfectly, it will never look good.

Fully agree except it is not available any more. Need a 3rd edition. Sure helped me tho, I just did what he said to do which gave me a jump forward. But IMO one has to also be willing to spend some money, maybe $2K or more on decent equipment including a good copy stand, macro, and versatile camera body. Then there is the lights, focusing rail, and other little devices that just make images better..................

Best, SH

DelawareDoons

You really don't need all that extra stuff now. Just lights, copy stand, camera body, macro lens, AC adapter, tethering cord and you're good to go. Cameras are stupid powerful and Photoshop is stupid good.

coinbuf

Mark Goodman's book is no longer in print and can be difficult to find, here is a link to his site coinimaging.com/. Read the articles and you can glean a ton of useful information on lighting and camera settings. Also it is not necessary to spend a ton of money (2K was mentioned) to get excellent images, great equipment can be very helpful but you already have alot of the items so now its time to read and experiment.

BryceM

Out of print! Say it isn't so......

If you're spending money, prioritize:

• macro lens
• copy stand
• lights
• camera body

If you want to know what will make the most difference, for me it was:

• Goodman's book
• copy stand
• lens
• lights
• camera body

The DSLR camera body I use was something like $300 used. The lens, I paid up for.

pursuitofliberty

Always when you get new stuff, go back and set your White Balance, then take a couple shots with Aperture priority and set your lens for about f/6.3 to 7.1. Keep track of what the camera shutter speed is. After you see what that does you can go manual and adjust the speed. By then you should be fairly close.

EDITTED TO ADD - I set my camera up like that BEFORE I set White Balance, then I tweak with settings.

Mr_Spud

There’s 3 copies of Mark Goodman’s book on eBay right now. I’m not sure if the price is good or not though

Mr_Spud

Amazon too

coinbuf

I am no where near a great photographer but I took this with equipment that cost approximately $500. Again my photos will never set the world on fire and I plan to continue to work on my skills, but it is very true to the look of the coin in hand.

Connecticoin

Tethering to the laptop was a game-changer for me - it enables much more manual focus precision.

The overexposed photos can likely be corrected by lowering the exposure compensation setting. Also try place the lights at a higher angle near the camera at 10:00 and 2:00 near the lens. A lot of trial and error and persistence will get you there.

MonsterCoinz

Way too much natural light coming in through your window. As someone said above, a dark room is best.

TurtleCat

This video, while a bit slow to watch, has a lot of great hints and practical tips for coin photography. It also shows there is more than one way to do it and get similar results:

https://youtu.be/3_tH0PUYkso

YQQ

lately, I experimented using the build in flash on my Canon.
excellent satisfactory results...

gumby1234

@DelawareDoons was that 1867 used as jewelry it has 3 odd looking spots on the rim?

DelawareDoons

@gumby1234 said:
@DelawareDoons was that 1867 used as jewelry it has 3 odd looking spots on the rim?

Rattler holder.

DelawareDoons

@YQQ said:
lately, I experimented using the build in flash on my Canon.
excellent satisfactory results...

Never use flash. Its far, far, far too bright.

gumby1234

@DelawareDoons said:

@gumby1234 said:
@DelawareDoons was that 1867 used as jewelry it has 3 odd looking spots on the rim?

Rattler holder.

Is that common for Rattlers? I only have had 2 rattlers., but never saw any marks like that on them.

DelawareDoons

@gumby1234 said:

@DelawareDoons said:

@gumby1234 said:
@DelawareDoons was that 1867 used as jewelry it has 3 odd looking spots on the rim?

Rattler holder.

Is that common for Rattlers? I only have had 2 rattlers., but never saw any marks like that on them.

There are prongs that hold the coin in place. Those are the prongs. It is a dime, for perspective.

gumby1234

Oh ok. Mine were both dimes as well. I probably just didn't notice them.

Davideo

The D200 doesn't have live view. So while you can tether to a computer it would be basically just for image transfer and adjusting exposure. You can't adjust focus, zoom in, etc.

While the camera body is definitely not the most important part, being able to fully tether is incredibly helpful. Even a $200 D7000 would get you that.

Pokermandude

Try a different color background. White paper reflects quite a bit of light.

Coinnmore

How about this web site I hear the owner is a member here.

http://www.macrocoins.com/example-system-x.html

drwstr123

D200with Sigma 90mm

The_Dinosaur_Man

All of the above suggestions are cheaper than going to film school, which I did before taking on a career in numismatics. From my experience, everything that can be set to Manual should be done so, focus, ISO, white balance. You need to be in a space where you have full control of the lighting set up, meaning zero ambient light filtering in. Remote shutter releases are the way to go to minimize any camera motion.

And keep experimenting with your set-ups. Keep trying out different techniques and methods until you find a style or set of styles that produce the images that you want to see.

savitale

Be OK with changing your settings for every coin. Some people may hit a sweet spot that works for 99% of coins, but I never did. Don't be afraid of Photoshop. Some coins are too contrasty or not contrasty enough to look their best right out of the camera.

I'd also try putting the lights right up against the barrel of the lens, pointing straight down.

LanceNewmanOCC

@Coinnmore said:
How about this web site I hear the owner is a member here.

http://www.macrocoins.com/example-system-x.html

.
i've worked with ray, he is the best.

he helped me get the equip to shoot mintmarks so big and clear they are the size of other people's full size coin images.

Desert Moon

@Mr_Spud said:
There’s 3 copies of Mark Goodman’s book on eBay right now.

Good to see some available at good prices. Last year I found one listed at triple those prices and that is it. I am glad I have 2 copies, one working copy, one saved.

Here is what great equip recommended by Goodman's book gets you, taken with:

Kaiser RS-1 copy stand (bought for 1/2 price retail used but in perfect cond)
Kaiser RTP arm
Kaiser lighting system, use Par30 halogens or LEDs depending on coin and what I am showing
Sigma 150 mm macro lens
Nikon D90
Velbon Super Mag Slider Macro Rail - Magnesium
Nikon DG-2 Eyepiece Magnifier
Adobe Photoshop

I did not try to cut costs in the equip, dang glad I did not. I feel like anything, you get what you pay for.

Best, SH

NumisOxide

How is this one? Feedback? Focus still needs work.

NumisOxide

NumisOxide

LanceNewmanOCC

the brightness can be edited via some type of ev +/- button as well. i think there may be one on the outside of the camera, depends on model though. internal settings are probably better to get used to.

did you tinker with the ISO and aperture settings?

you are getting closer. do you push the button on the camera for shutter release?

TurtleCat

The exposure needs to be adjusted. Are you shooting in manual mode? That is the best way. Set the ISO to the lowest numbered value, turn off auto ISO adjustments, set the aperture to F10 (as a good start), and then adjust shutter speed until it looks right.

With some cameras you can do an exposure delay mode which can be handy to minimize camera shake. Some let you use a remote app on your phone as a shutter release. Worst case is to use the timer. But I think the issue is more about getting focus nailed down on the camera more than camera shake. What I’m seeing is the plane of focus isn’t on the right area.

My starter advice is to get the date perfectly in focus with some of the field in focus at the same time. If you pull that off the odds are the rest will fall in place.

NumisOxide

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
the brightness can be edited via some type of ev +/- button as well. i think there may be one on the outside of the camera, depends on model though. internal settings are probably better to get used to.

did you tinker with the ISO and aperture settings?

I took auto focus off and set it to ISO 100.

you are getting closer. do you push the button on the camera for shutter release?

Yes, I have it on a 5 second timer.

@TurtleCat said:
The exposure needs to be adjusted. Are you shooting in manual mode? That is the best way. Set the ISO to the lowest numbered value, turn off auto ISO adjustments, set the aperture to F10 (as a good start), and then adjust shutter speed until it looks right.

With some cameras you can do an exposure delay mode which can be handy to minimize camera shake. Some let you use a remote app on your phone as a shutter release. Worst case is to use the timer. But I think the issue is more about getting focus nailed down on the camera more than camera shake. What I’m seeing is the plane of focus isn’t on the right area.

My starter advice is to get the date perfectly in focus with some of the field in focus at the same time. If you pull that off the odds are the rest will fall in place.

Here's the setting I'm using. I'm still getting use to the terminology. This is manual mode, right? Lol

NumisOxide

Appreciate the guidance.😎

astrorat

The Tokina lens you are using is an excellent lens and a good value at current prices. The Nikon D200 is plenty of camera as well.

One thing to check with respect to focusing is to be sure the sensor is parallel to the coin. Use a bubble level on the camera and surface to ensure your focus is the same across the coin.

NumisOxide

@astrorat said:
The Tokina lens you are using is an excellent lens and a good value at current prices. The Nikon D200 is plenty of camera as well.

One thing to check with respect to focusing is to be sure the sensor is parallel to the coin. Use a bubble level on the camera and surface to ensure your focus is the same across the coin.

Just looking at my setup, I can see that the camera is too heavy for my copy stand base. Its definitely not level. I'm going to beef it up.

TurtleCat

@coinJP the picture you showed shows the lens is in manual mode. The CSM you see on that dial stand for (M)anual focusing, (C)ontinuous focusing, and (S)ingle focusing. You want to keep it at M. It’s not the same as manual mode for exposure, though.

From the top dial (where the MODE button and on/off are) I can easily see your settings. Your camera is in Manual mode. That is good. Aperture is F10 is set that’s good. You are set to auto white balance. You’ll want to make that a (PRE)set white balance as it will save you a LOT of grief. Your shutter speed is currently 1/10. You can use the back dial on the upper right (horizontal dial) to make that faster/slower. Given what I’m seeing rotate that dial until you see 30 meaning 1/30 exposure. Then adjust the dial left or right to taste.

You also have the camera set to record JPEG images in Large basic. That’s fine but you will want Large fine jpegs instead as the quality is much better - it also means having the white balance set correctly is essential. There are some vids on YouTube to help you do all the settings. You’re actually very close. If you were near me, I could have you going in about 10 minutes. That’s how close you are.

messydesk

One of the things I keep in my camera bag is a WhiBal white balance card. Comes in handy in many photo scenarios, not just coins.

savitale

I use autofocus. It is better than my eye.

There’s no one magic set of iso/aperture/exposure.

I do recommend a rock-solid copy stand rated for the weight of your camera. They are expensive.

I also recommend a remote shutter release. They are cheap.

NumisOxide

@TurtleCat said:
@coinJP the picture you showed shows the lens is in manual mode. The CSM you see on that dial stand for (M)anual focusing, (C)ontinuous focusing, and (S)ingle focusing. You want to keep it at M. It’s not the same as manual mode for exposure, though.

From the top dial (where the MODE button and on/off are) I can easily see your settings. Your camera is in Manual mode. That is good. Aperture is F10 is set that’s good. You are set to auto white balance. You’ll want to make that a (PRE)set white balance as it will save you a LOT of grief. Your shutter speed is currently 1/10. You can use the back dial on the upper right (horizontal dial) to make that faster/slower. Given what I’m seeing rotate that dial until you see 30 meaning 1/30 exposure. Then adjust the dial left or right to taste.

You also have the camera set to record JPEG images in Large basic. That’s fine but you will want Large fine jpegs instead as the quality is much better - it also means having the white balance set correctly is essential. There are some vids on YouTube to help you do all the settings. You’re actually very close. If you were near me, I could have you going in about 10 minutes. That’s how close you are.

Alright great to hear! I see what your referring to now about the 1/30. Ok will change it to Large fine JPEG. Yes, I watched a few videos , need to replay them. Thanks.> @messydesk said:

One of the things I keep in my camera bag is a WhiBal white balance card. Comes in handy in many photo scenarios, not just coins.

I do have one! It has grey scale, white and black. Thanks.

NumisOxide

Ok this I shot before I fixed the white balance, etc. Will fix the settings as suggested and take another shot of the same coin. Give 20 min.

astrorat

While camera settings are not absolute, some work better than others for imaging coins. As an amateur imager ... I think these are a good starting point. Or stated another way ... these work for me.

1. Shoot in raw format, as it allows for a lot of image adjustments after the image is made.
2. ISO 100 (or ISO 200 if that is the lowest). Set it and forget it. Playing with ISO for imaging coins won't reap big rewards.
3. Shoot in aperture priority. Keep the aperture around f/8 as that seems to be the best balance for depth of field.
4. Shoot in a dark space and use lighting with a temperature close to "daylight."
5. Autofocus is fine as long as it works with the camera and lens. Not all combinations work the same. "Real" photographers use manual focusing for macro imaging ... the rest of us can limp along with autofocus.
6. Keep your sensor level with the object you are imaging.
7. Use Photoshop Elements to edit your images.