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What distinguishes a silver 66 from a 65 and a 65 from a 64?

DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

When i look at my series with few exceptions I really have trouble confirming the labelled grade.

Comments

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any number of things. It depends on the series and the individual coin. And maybe who you're asking.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let's take Barber Dimes as an example.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Start by comparing a 66 to a 64

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,886 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you looking at Barber Dimes in hand, on on-line?

    The reason I ask is that images can be deceiving or difficult for small hairlines (not from cleaning, but what is sometimes referred to as "roll friction" or "cabinet friction"), and depth of luster ... both noticeable factors in grading any series, and very prevalent it seems for that series.

    I have seen a lot of images that look 66 at first blush, but certainly are not, and others that look 64/65, that are much nicer.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Silver? Almost always luster and mint bloom on the devices

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Start by comparing a 66 to a 64

    I've started a small grouping of CACs and the 66s seem more often to be deeply toned. The 64s often are "white,"

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Are you looking at Barber Dimes in hand, on on-line?

    I have seen a lot of images that look 66 at first blush, but certainly are not, and others that look 64/65, that are much nicer.

    I've started a small grouping of CACs and the 66s seem more often to be deeply toned. The 64s often are "white,"

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,886 ✭✭✭✭✭

    mmmm ... yes ... well, there aren't a whole lot of white Barbers that haven't been dipped, and while still uncirculated, they will often show the minuscule marks and frictions and disturbances in the "worst" possible light.

    Original and attractively toned coins coins tend to hold a greater eye appeal overall and that's worth a point, at least.

    As TDN said, luster and mint bloom are always a big factor ... and let's face it, it's all about the eye appeal and "pop" to get 66's and better ... or at least it should be.

    my 2c anyway


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Silver? Almost always luster and mint bloom on the devices

    Can you expand your explanation? " 'Mint bloom' on the devices?"

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2021 3:37AM

    Luster, marks/surface preservation, eye-appeal and (usually, to a lesser degree) strike. The answer would be quite similar, even if other types of coins and/or other mint state grade comparisons were involved.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2021 3:57AM

    Luster and the number, severity, and location of surface abrasions. A 66 should also have at least solid eye appeal. Strike is a small factor that seemingly matters less and less with the services. For instance there are many Morgan dollars with significant weakness in the hairlines above the ear. Years ago these coins would max out at MS64, but I have increasingly seen them make it into MS65-MS66 holders now.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I recommend taking a course in grading at the ANA show or other venue. Sure, over years of self study, you can gain grading skills. However, a skilled instructor will get you there faster and with less frustration. Remember, there are no fixed standards, so training/experience allows you to acquire skills resulting in an informed opinion. Cheers, RickO

  • tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since we know there are AB&C 66 coins and AB&C 65 coins I'd say the six largest contributing factors to the assigned grade not in any particular order would be.....

    1 - the amount of quality sleep the graders had the night before
    2 - the amount of pollen in the ambient air in the grading room
    3 - the amount of time between the graders last heated argument with their significant other
    4 - the relative rarity of the coin being graded
    5 - the backlog of coins waiting the be graded resulting in increased pressure on productivity
    6 - the subjectivity of grading in general

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A bit of levity, and I agree. Many seem to believe that grading is like mathematics and that somehow you get better over time. With respect to some characteristics that is true but the subjective factors are there regardless, and seemingly to varying degrees.
    I have gotten highly graded rarities that were slabbed and very much disagree with the grade (in my specific area), and others grossly under graded - these all not mine and no "dog in the fight" with regards to the latter.
    There is no substitute for knowing your coins, that is for sure, and sometimes independent of the numerical grade on the slab.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Are you looking at Barber Dimes in hand, on on-line?

    I have seen a lot of images that look 66 at first blush, but certainly are not, and others that look 64/65, that are much nicer.

    I've started a small grouping of CACs and the 66s seem more often to be deeply toned. The 64s often are "white,"

    Depending on the toning, sometimes small nicks can be concealed by toning, and the same coin with toning may appear to have cleaner surfaces than if it were untoned. Where it depends is whether you're talking about strong color or just the difference between a golden skin versus blast white (perhaps dipped) surfaces. I think the best example of this phenomenon is with Franklin half dollars, which can often come with deep toning and have a relatively low detail design that itself doesn't hide marks well (no intricate details in the hair, for example, where a hit would be concealed). While there are certainly some higher grade untoned examples, I think a lot of the higher grade pieces are toned.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was going to type what airplanenut said.

    toning can hid marks. you have to look past toning

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A neutron microscope.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The difference between 64, 65, and 66? About 20 to 25 years.

    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most collectors under grade a vibrant frosty coin with original mint frost on the devices but with bagmarks. Most collectors over grade a somewhat lustrous but bagmark free coin with little remaining frost on the devices.

    Too much focus on marks and not enough focus on originality of luster

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