@pmh1nic said:
Your scenario ends up with one individual intentionally manipulating the system (in concert with a host of other individuals that have no interest in collecting the coins) hoard them.
Flippers don't hoard coins, they resell them to others. You know... like people who have jobs that don't allow them the time to sit at the computer and order the coins for their collections themselves.
But not like the flippers who obviously can sit in Front of their computers and pay others to do so. So there is that but again, no issues with those that play fair. It is the ones that cheat and then brag that are the scumbags
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@jessewvu said:
They should go to biometrics. Other than the privacy police throwing up their hands, a simple fingerprint or face scan from a smart phone would solve the problem pretty quick for sure. Folks that don’t have it can call in 😉
They need to use the technology that currently exists.
Actually, some of the bit farms apparently have humans who are hired specifically to defeat things like captcha.> @3stars said:
You guys pay for bots? Why not just grab the source code and make your own
Cheaper to buy it. You need to spoof IP addresses, have AI built in to handle anti-bot tools, etc.
@3stars said:
You guys pay for bots? Why not just grab the source code and make your own
I wish I had learned that skill! Cyber guys are making bank in my part of the country
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@3stars said:
You guys pay for bots? Why not just grab the source code and make your own
I wish I had learned that skill! Cyber guys are making bank in my part of the country
They aren't the ones wasting time on making a few bucks on Mint issues I'm guessing.
Actually, if you read one of those articles I posted, the guy is a software engineer and half his income comes from his bot activities. This includes a blog and things as well as $30,000 per year in profit on goods purchased and resold, sneakers and consoles I think.
Read it yourself. As a software engineer, his salary is really $100k+. That means he's making another $100k of his bot activities. I know that's chump change to a prince like yourself. But that's real money to one or two of us.
@Mgarmy said:
I lean toward your position however it would be impossible to know the minds of the 300
You don’t need to guess at the intention given the statement “willing to buy one to flip to me”.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@nags said:
Having a lower limit disincentives someone setting up a bot. For the proof silver eagle, is it worth it for flippers if you're only getting (3) per transaction instead of 25?
Not really. The issues isn't the HHL but the success rate of getting coins. Of course, it depends on the cost of bots. It seems to be worth it for the telemarketing bots selling extended car warranties. They must make thousands of phone calls before they hook anyone. The hit rate on the bots is much higher for the coins.
It costs $300 to $500 per year for sneaker bots. So, the incremental cost of having them buy coins is pretty much zero as I'm paying by the year and already presumably have my bot.
The sneaker bots can handle up to 500 simultaneous transactions. So that means, even at 3 per HHL, you could get up to 1500 coins if your bot is 100% successful.
The sneaker releases are often HHL of 1, after all.
The HHL is not an anti-bot technique. The software solution, whatever it is, is the anti-bot implementation.
You sound like part of the problem
Really? Because I discussed the nature of the bots. What exactly did I say that makes me part of the problem?
I don't own a bot. I don't want a bot. I just ran the numbers on the bots. I don't even use sniping software which is, of course, a bot.
Of course, after this ridiculous accusation based on nothing whatsoever, I am hoping that you are routed by bots.
Read it yourself. As a software engineer, his salary is really $100k+. That means he's making another $100k of his bot activities. I know that's chump change to a prince like yourself. But that's real money to one or two of us.
Or flippers could figure a way to provide real value to society and get compensated accordingly and respected. But you do you
Where is the line crypto? Coin shops flip as a business, no harm there right? What about guys who buy one series in demand so they can upgrade the series they do collect, is that where the line is drawn, or is it, where I tend to come down on, the sacks that have no interest in coins and use bots? I hesitate to paint all with the same brush.
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@nags said:
Having a lower limit disincentives someone setting up a bot. For the proof silver eagle, is it worth it for flippers if you're only getting (3) per transaction instead of 25?
Not really. The issues isn't the HHL but the success rate of getting coins. Of course, it depends on the cost of bots. It seems to be worth it for the telemarketing bots selling extended car warranties. They must make thousands of phone calls before they hook anyone. The hit rate on the bots is much higher for the coins.
It costs $300 to $500 per year for sneaker bots. So, the incremental cost of having them buy coins is pretty much zero as I'm paying by the year and already presumably have my bot.
The sneaker bots can handle up to 500 simultaneous transactions. So that means, even at 3 per HHL, you could get up to 1500 coins if your bot is 100% successful.
The sneaker releases are often HHL of 1, after all.
The HHL is not an anti-bot technique. The software solution, whatever it is, is the anti-bot implementation.
You sound like part of the problem
Really? Because I discussed the nature of the bots. What exactly did I say that makes me part of the problem?
I don't own a bot. I don't want a bot. I just ran the numbers on the bots. I don't even use sniping software which is, of course, a bot.
Of course, after this ridiculous accusation based on nothing whatsoever, I am hoping that you are routed by bots.
Read it yourself. As a software engineer, his salary is really $100k+. That means he's making another $100k of his bot activities. I know that's chump change to a prince like yourself. But that's real money to one or two of us.
Or flippers could figure a way to provide real value to society and get compensated accordingly and respected. But you do you
I teach college. I flip for fun and profit. I also took the time to try to help us get educated on bots and how they work. That's me doing me.
How about when I bought a hundred 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Coin sets - which never actually sold out at the Mint since they never hit the maximum mintage - and broke them up to sell singles to people who collected individual series.
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks in advance.
What about if I buy 100 silver eagles and send them out to be slabbed and then "flip" the coins to the collectors who want to buy an already slabbed 69 or 70?
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks, again.
What if I only buy one coin and I keep it, but it's the last one and Crypto wanted it?
@jmlanzaf said:
How about when I bought a hundred 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Coin sets - which never actually sold out at the Mint since they never hit the maximum mintage - and broke them up to sell singles to people who collected individual series.
@jmlanzaf said:
How about when I bought a hundred 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Coin sets - which never actually sold out at the Mint since they never hit the maximum mintage - and broke them up to sell singles to people who collected individual series.
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks in advance.
What about if I buy 100 silver eagles and send them out to be slabbed and then "flip" the coins to the collectors who want to buy an already slabbed 69 or 70?
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks, again.
What if I only buy one coin and I keep it, but it's the last one and Crypto wanted it?
Apples and oranges. In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors that want one can get one. The various strategies to get around those limitations are violating the spirit of those limitations. If at the end of some time period the coins don’t sell out then it’s open season to buy as many as you want to flip them. Buying left over mints sets to crack and sell coins is a totally different situation.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Apples and oranges. In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors that want one can get one. The various strategies to get around those limitations are violating the spirit of those limitations.
Wrong! It’s not an individual limit, it’s a household limit. If I had 10 coin collectors in my house and we all wanted to order a coin with a household order limit of 10, we would be screwed and could either end up with 1 each or 0 if another member in our house ordered 10 for themselves.
The us mint could not care less what you do with your coins once purchased. They certainly aren’t going to tell you that need to check to see if the individual you will be selling a coin to has more coins in their possession than permitted.
There is equal opportunity, not equal outcome. I’ll just leave it at that.
Apples and oranges. In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors that want one can get one. The various strategies to get around those limitations are violating the spirit of those limitations.
Wrong! It’s not an individual limit, it’s a household limit. If I had 10 coin collectors in my house and we all wanted to order a coin with a household order limit of 10, we would be screwed and could either end up with 1 each or 0 if another member in our house ordered 10 for themselves.
The us mint could not care less what you do with your coins once purchased. They certainly aren’t going to tell you that need to check to see if the individual you will be selling a coin to has more coins in their possession than permitted.
There is equal opportunity, not equal outcome. I’ll just leave it at that.
And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@pmh1nic a hundred 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Coin sets - which never actually sold out at the Mint since they never hit the maximum mintage - and broke them up to sell singles to people who collected individual series.
Could someone help me with the
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks, again.
What if I only buy one coin and I keep it, but it's the last one and Crypto wanted it?
Apples and oranges. In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors that want one can get one. The various strategies to get around those limitations are violating the spirit of those limitations. If at the end of some time period the coins don’t sell out then it’s open season to buy as many as you want to flip them. Buying left over mints sets to crack and sell coins is a totally different situation.
In the cases listed, this was also true. But crypto was condemning flipping not violating HHL.
@pmh1nic said:
In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors that want one can get one.
In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors people that want one can get one.
And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
This is true. Of course, unlimited mintages are a Faustian bargain. With unlimited mintages, there is no secondary market value and people stop buying them because they don't want to lose money.
The Mint needs the illusion of rarity. They actually end up selling more coins. How many "collectors" buy an extra or two either to flip or to put away to speculate on future value? They don't buy those extra if there's an unlimited mintage.
@thebigeng said:
Oh, thanks @metroD I got my questions answered earlier, no need for all that.
Thanks for the response.
Looking up the information on the Mint's website is really not that complicated. (If I can do it, anyone can.) It just appears complex because my instructions were detailed enough to enable a 1st time user to orient themselves. Once you get acquainted, the process of viewing the entire "product schedule" for a given year takes mere seconds.
Going forward, at least you have the option of accessing the data yourself, should you be interested.
And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
Or still have limited mintages, but just don't publish the mintage in advance.
Without the guaranteed profit, the buyers clubs wouldn't take the risk.
"just don't publish the mintage in advance"
That equates to Less Transparency
Less Transparency equates to Insider Information
Insider Information equates to Big Boys knowing the mintage in advance and everyone else not knowing...
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And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
Or still have limited mintages, but just don't publish the mintage in advance.
Without the guaranteed profit, the buyers clubs wouldn't take the risk.
You can keep posting this non-solution but it doesn't get better with age.
If Apmex or PFS or anyone else posts a pre-sale buy, the buyers clubs know what the minimum guaranteed profit is before they even warm up their bots.
And when you assume the mintage will be high so you don't rush to your computer to buy one and find out it sold out in 20 minutes, will you be applauding the hidden rarity that you missed?
And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
Or still have limited mintages, but just don't publish the mintage in advance.
Without the guaranteed profit, the buyers clubs wouldn't take the risk.
"just don't publish the mintage in advance"
That equates to Less Transparency
Less Transparency equates to Insider Information
Insider Information equates to Big Boys knowing the mintage in advance and everyone else not knowing...
The Congress bit was on the insider trading angle JM, not authorization for coin mintages
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Is it insider training if the information is made public prior to release…no it is not.
As having access to confidential information which is not avl to the public would be key. Once made public prior to sale…
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@Mgarmy said:
Is it insider training if the information is made public prior to release…no it is not.
As having access to confidential information which is not avl to the public would be key. Once made public prior to sale…
And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
This is true. Of course, unlimited mintages are a Faustian bargain. With unlimited mintages, there is no secondary market value and people stop buying them because they don't want to lose money.
The Mint needs the illusion of rarity. They actually end up selling more coins. How many "collectors" buy an extra or two either to flip or to put away to speculate on future value? They don't buy those extra if there's an unlimited mintage.
Yes, I would think Mint wants the production runs on specified items to have perceived and real value with price appreciation. This should keep potential buyers interested long term.
@jmlanzaf said:
Congress determines some of these mintages in the enabling legislation. See the links I posted above.
All your references are for commemoratives. That type of coin legislation is specific and is mostly cut-and-pasted from one year to the next. The Mint has discretion on mintage as part of their marketing strategy for their special coins.
The Mint's mission statement - which I'm trying to help them abide by - can most simply be achieved by taking the guaranteed profit out of the decision to buy, thus eliminating the non-numismatic actors, and thus avoiding the chaos.
I hope all of the paranoia and suspicion of the Mint's integrity being implied here is taken by the Mint as a challenge - and will reinforce my suggestion to them.
@rip_f said:
The Mint's mission statement - which I'm trying to help them abide by - can most simply be achieved by taking the guaranteed profit out of the decision to buy, thus eliminating the non-numismatic actors, and thus avoiding the chaos.
That's interesting. Where does the mint's mission mention "non-numismatic actors"? I looked at the mint's website and this is what I found:
"The mission of the U.S. Mint is to serve the American people by manufacturing and distributing circulating, precious metal and collectible coins and national medals..."
Exact wording from the United States Mint: “In order for the United States Mint to cover rising costs, meet its fiduciary responsibility to operate at no net cost to taxpayers, and return money to the Treasury General Fund…”
@jmlanzaf said:
Congress determines some of these mintages in the enabling legislation. See the links I posted above.
All your references are for commemoratives. That type of coin legislation is specific and is mostly cut-and-pasted from one year to the next. The Mint has discretion on mintage as part of their marketing strategy for their special coins.
The Mint's mission statement - which I'm trying to help them abide by - can most simply be achieved by taking the guaranteed profit out of the decision to buy, thus eliminating the non-numismatic actors, and thus avoiding the chaos.
I hope all of the paranoia and suspicion of the Mint's integrity being implied here is taken by the Mint as a challenge - and will reinforce my suggestion to them.
That's true, and so....
The easiest way to eliminate flippers is to simply raise the price to the market value or auction the coins off. Of course you're afraid you'd have to pay full market value, so you'd rather have some secret mintage that is not in the Mint's best interest since it discourages purchases.
The mint could also just stop issuing these special issues since they rarely make money on them anyway.
Announce that you are going to accept every order received in the first 24 hours and strike to demand, less the orders where the credit cards bounce or whatever. End of speculation.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
Announce that you are going to accept every order received in the first 24 hours and strike to demand, less the orders where the credit cards bounce or whatever. End of speculation.
You could, but that will hurt sales in the long run.
You also would have to make order cancelation or returns forbidden. Otherwise you will still have speculators.
And how many people don't troll the Mint website waiting for releases. You are locking out the casual collectors who pick them up later.
I never said anything about eliminating the flippers.
The proposal is that the public will not know the ultimate mintage.
Anyone that knows the market well enough to see that a certain coin has the potential to be highly collectable will take a little risk and buy it. That's fine.
Collectors and dealers who know the market will remember the couple coins a year that sells out unexpectedly and became winners. They'll be ready on day one to buy what they need.
But it will introduce enough of a risk to dissuade those who need a guaranteed sure-thing to participate.
Bots and hired hands may not be employed as much or at all if a few products don't sell out and they're stuck with them.
@CaptHenway said:
Announce that you are going to accept every order received in the first 24 hours and strike to demand, less the orders where the credit cards bounce or whatever. End of speculation.
I really like this idea. It would eliminate the clogging of the Mint's web site the minute the coin goes on sale, and it would allow anyone who can get onto the site in 24 hours to get a coin (or several based on the HHL, if any). Personally, I don't care what this would do to the flippers or future investment value of the coin. It makes sense to me.
Perhaps they should just have random releases at random times of the day, random days of the year. That should confuse enough folks and have us give up all hope.
Comments
Flippers don't hoard coins, they resell them to others. You know... like people who have jobs that don't allow them the time to sit at the computer and order the coins for their collections themselves.
But not like the flippers who obviously can sit in Front of their computers and pay others to do so. So there is that but again, no issues with those that play fair. It is the ones that cheat and then brag that are the scumbags
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You guys pay for bots? Why not just grab the source code and make your own
Actually, some of the bit farms apparently have humans who are hired specifically to defeat things like captcha.> @3stars said:
Cheaper to buy it. You need to spoof IP addresses, have AI built in to handle anti-bot tools, etc.
I wish I had learned that skill! Cyber guys are making bank in my part of the country
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They aren't the ones wasting time on making a few bucks on Mint issues I'm guessing.
Nope CND/CNA but they know how I am sure
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Actually, if you read one of those articles I posted, the guy is a software engineer and half his income comes from his bot activities. This includes a blog and things as well as $30,000 per year in profit on goods purchased and resold, sneakers and consoles I think.
$30k, wow, tell me more...
Read it yourself. As a software engineer, his salary is really $100k+. That means he's making another $100k of his bot activities. I know that's chump change to a prince like yourself. But that's real money to one or two of us.
now it's $100k off of bot activities. At least its a growth industry.
Read all the words. I said he made $30k selling merchandise along with his other bot activities which included a blog.
Reading is fundamental. It is never too late to learn.
You don’t need to guess at the intention given the statement “willing to buy one to flip to me”.
Or flippers could figure a way to provide real value to society and get compensated accordingly and respected. But you do you
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Where is the line crypto? Coin shops flip as a business, no harm there right? What about guys who buy one series in demand so they can upgrade the series they do collect, is that where the line is drawn, or is it, where I tend to come down on, the sacks that have no interest in coins and use bots? I hesitate to paint all with the same brush.
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I teach college. I flip for fun and profit. I also took the time to try to help us get educated on bots and how they work. That's me doing me.
Hmmm...never pays to be honest.
How about when I bought a hundred 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Coin sets - which never actually sold out at the Mint since they never hit the maximum mintage - and broke them up to sell singles to people who collected individual series.
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks in advance.
What about if I buy 100 silver eagles and send them out to be slabbed and then "flip" the coins to the collectors who want to buy an already slabbed 69 or 70?
Could someone help me with the ethics of that? Thanks, again.
What if I only buy one coin and I keep it, but it's the last one and Crypto wanted it?
No good deed goes unpunished.
Apples and oranges. In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors that want one can get one. The various strategies to get around those limitations are violating the spirit of those limitations. If at the end of some time period the coins don’t sell out then it’s open season to buy as many as you want to flip them. Buying left over mints sets to crack and sell coins is a totally different situation.
Oh, thanks @metroD I got my questions answered earlier, no need for all that.
Wrong! It’s not an individual limit, it’s a household limit. If I had 10 coin collectors in my house and we all wanted to order a coin with a household order limit of 10, we would be screwed and could either end up with 1 each or 0 if another member in our house ordered 10 for themselves.
The us mint could not care less what you do with your coins once purchased. They certainly aren’t going to tell you that need to check to see if the individual you will be selling a coin to has more coins in their possession than permitted.
There is equal opportunity, not equal outcome. I’ll just leave it at that.
And if the Mint really cared about as many collectors as wanted the coins could get them, it would do away with limited mintages.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
In the cases listed, this was also true. But crypto was condemning flipping not violating HHL.
In this cases the Mint is intentionally limiting the number of coins per individual so that as many collectors people that want one can get one.
FIFY
Hasn't the Mint heard of reCAPTCHA?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@MFeld said:
This is true. Of course, unlimited mintages are a Faustian bargain. With unlimited mintages, there is no secondary market value and people stop buying them because they don't want to lose money.
The Mint needs the illusion of rarity. They actually end up selling more coins. How many "collectors" buy an extra or two either to flip or to put away to speculate on future value? They don't buy those extra if there's an unlimited mintage.
Thanks for the response.
Looking up the information on the Mint's website is really not that complicated. (If I can do it, anyone can.) It just appears complex because my instructions were detailed enough to enable a 1st time user to orient themselves. Once you get acquainted, the process of viewing the entire "product schedule" for a given year takes mere seconds.
Going forward, at least you have the option of accessing the data yourself, should you be interested.
Or still have limited mintages, but just don't publish the mintage in advance.
Without the guaranteed profit, the buyers clubs wouldn't take the risk.
"just don't publish the mintage in advance"
That equates to Less Transparency
Less Transparency equates to Insider Information
Insider Information equates to Big Boys knowing the mintage in advance and everyone else not knowing...
Just like Congress😁
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You may have forgotten, but they used it for the Type 1 ASE - adding to our frustration.
Bots aren't fooled by simple reCAPTCHA.
You can keep posting this non-solution but it doesn't get better with age.
If Apmex or PFS or anyone else posts a pre-sale buy, the buyers clubs know what the minimum guaranteed profit is before they even warm up their bots.
And when you assume the mintage will be high so you don't rush to your computer to buy one and find out it sold out in 20 minutes, will you be applauding the hidden rarity that you missed?
You also can't really have such secrets as some of the mintages are in the enabling legislation and not at the whim of the Mint. For example, see https://congress.gov/115/plaws/publ343/PLAW-115publ343.pdf
or
https://congress.gov/116/plaws/publ71/PLAW-116publ71.pdf
For more information, see this:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44623.pdf
Congress determines some of these mintages in the enabling legislation. See the links I posted above.
The Congress bit was on the insider trading angle JM, not authorization for coin mintages
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There's nothing more "inside" than actually being the one to determine the mintages.
Is it insider training if the information is made public prior to release…no it is not.
As having access to confidential information which is not avl to the public would be key. Once made public prior to sale…
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Of course that's true. It was meant as a joke.
Yes, I would think Mint wants the production runs on specified items to have perceived and real value with price appreciation. This should keep potential buyers interested long term.
All your references are for commemoratives. That type of coin legislation is specific and is mostly cut-and-pasted from one year to the next. The Mint has discretion on mintage as part of their marketing strategy for their special coins.
The Mint's mission statement - which I'm trying to help them abide by - can most simply be achieved by taking the guaranteed profit out of the decision to buy, thus eliminating the non-numismatic actors, and thus avoiding the chaos.
I hope all of the paranoia and suspicion of the Mint's integrity being implied here is taken by the Mint as a challenge - and will reinforce my suggestion to them.
That's interesting. Where does the mint's mission mention "non-numismatic actors"? I looked at the mint's website and this is what I found:
"The mission of the U.S. Mint is to serve the American people by manufacturing and distributing circulating, precious metal and collectible coins and national medals..."
Cool, makes it easier for me to get the 2021 .peace
Exact wording from the United States Mint: “In order for the United States Mint to cover rising costs, meet its fiduciary responsibility to operate at no net cost to taxpayers, and return money to the Treasury General Fund…”
That's true, and so....
The easiest way to eliminate flippers is to simply raise the price to the market value or auction the coins off. Of course you're afraid you'd have to pay full market value, so you'd rather have some secret mintage that is not in the Mint's best interest since it discourages purchases.
The mint could also just stop issuing these special issues since they rarely make money on them anyway.
Announce that you are going to accept every order received in the first 24 hours and strike to demand, less the orders where the credit cards bounce or whatever. End of speculation.
I don't think it's that easy when you have to contend with legislation, die production, bullion availability etc.
You could, but that will hurt sales in the long run.
You also would have to make order cancelation or returns forbidden. Otherwise you will still have speculators.
And how many people don't troll the Mint website waiting for releases. You are locking out the casual collectors who pick them up later.
I never said anything about eliminating the flippers.
The proposal is that the public will not know the ultimate mintage.
Anyone that knows the market well enough to see that a certain coin has the potential to be highly collectable will take a little risk and buy it. That's fine.
Collectors and dealers who know the market will remember the couple coins a year that sells out unexpectedly and became winners. They'll be ready on day one to buy what they need.
But it will introduce enough of a risk to dissuade those who need a guaranteed sure-thing to participate.
Bots and hired hands may not be employed as much or at all if a few products don't sell out and they're stuck with them.
I really like this idea. It would eliminate the clogging of the Mint's web site the minute the coin goes on sale, and it would allow anyone who can get onto the site in 24 hours to get a coin (or several based on the HHL, if any). Personally, I don't care what this would do to the flippers or future investment value of the coin. It makes sense to me.
Perhaps they should just have random releases at random times of the day, random days of the year. That should confuse enough folks and have us give up all hope.