I’ll admit I wanted one of those 68+, specifically the 1941, but not at that price. I did not get to see them in person- I have to work if I’m going to buy!
@Floridafacelifter said:
I’ll admit I wanted one of those 68+, specifically the 1941, but not at that price. I did not get to see them in person- I have to work if I’m going to buy!
Coin looks like a Picasso! Prefer this beautiful natural look over the wildly toned 1958 Franklin. I can easily see someone getting carried away with the bidding as the toning in combination with the grade makes this an unbelievable coin but I think I would probably stop at $15k maybe 20k.
@Justacommeman said:
The rare coin market is fairly liquid but be prepared to take a beating if forced to sell quickly. It's certainly not fungible and therefore needs to be placed in a separate portfolio bucket.
m
Well said my friend. My strategy is to buy coins with great luster, strike, minimal marks, clean surfaces and overall amazing eye appeal. Having done that I have accumulated a few nice coins. I have several candidates for pcgs regrade but as I don’t want to lose their old holder to the prong one, I might try for a gold bean first and see what happens
Can you post a few pics of the coins you bought with great luster, strike, etc.?
@Justacommeman said:
The rare coin market is fairly liquid but be prepared to take a beating if forced to sell quickly. It's certainly not fungible and therefore needs to be placed in a separate portfolio bucket.
m
Well said my friend. My strategy is to buy coins with great luster, strike, minimal marks, clean surfaces and overall amazing eye appeal. Having done that I have accumulated a few nice coins. I have several candidates for pcgs regrade but as I don’t want to lose their old holder to the prong one, I might try for a gold bean first and see what happens
Can you post a few pics of the coins you bought with great luster, strike, etc.?
@tradedollarnut said:
Why stop at a 66 for $500? Why not be even more sensible and buy a 65 for $100 or less. How can you justify that extra $400 for one grade point?
A) you’re comfy with spending that much
B ) you can appreciate the difference in quality for the price
See what I did there?
But actually I am incorrect 66 can be bought for 200 or so in the most common dates. Even so $500 is 5x multiple not “100”
If everyone followed your collection philosophy, who would stand out? Probably those who paid a little extra for nice coins for the grade…that is until someone called them idiots for doing so. Let’s celebrate homogeneous mediocrity! Woohoo!
I would buy rarity combined with a super high grade. The Franklin guy lost $80,000 on his purchase from Legend Auctions and people are posting on this site that they think the coin isn’t even worth $40,000. They are calling him a fool and I am merely making an observation on smart buying not mediocre buying.
I don’t care how people spend their money. Just my opinion on how I would approach it. Also I would buy amazing coins at 3-5x multiples. Maybe 10 if incredible but never 100+ multiple
IMO, and not just mine, the mistake the guy made was not buying the Franklin in the first place, but in attempting to "flip" it so soon after he had bought it. The market then had the added information that one set of very strong hands wasn't competing, and reason to wonder what was wrong with the coin. No idea if the new owner is buried or not, but he'll have a lot easier time making a profit (even adjusting for inflation) selling in 5-10 years than he would today.
@tradedollarnut said:
IMHO, dealers would be better off buying and holding in some markets (ie: investing) than trying to find continuous quality inventory (ie: retailing)
I agree, but consider that coins are not a revenue investment. A dealer would have to have an outside source of income to hold his coins rather than flip them. This is why dealers have to pay such low prices for coins that are likely to be illiquid.
@Justacommeman said:
The rare coin market is fairly liquid but be prepared to take a beating if forced to sell quickly. It's certainly not fungible and therefore needs to be placed in a separate portfolio bucket.
m
Well said my friend. My strategy is to buy coins with great luster, strike, minimal marks, clean surfaces and overall amazing eye appeal. Having done that I have accumulated a few nice coins. I have several candidates for pcgs regrade but as I don’t want to lose their old holder to the prong one, I might try for a gold bean first and see what happens
Can you post a few pics of the coins you bought with great luster, strike, etc.?
@Justacommeman said:
The rare coin market is fairly liquid but be prepared to take a beating if forced to sell quickly. It's certainly not fungible and therefore needs to be placed in a separate portfolio bucket.
m
Well said my friend. My strategy is to buy coins with great luster, strike, minimal marks, clean surfaces and overall amazing eye appeal. Having done that I have accumulated a few nice coins. I have several candidates for pcgs regrade but as I don’t want to lose their old holder to the prong one, I might try for a gold bean first and see what happens
Can you post a few pics of the coins you bought with great luster, strike, etc.?
No offense, but are you holding 64 Peace dollars in order to make a fortune on the price increase?
Just enjoying it as a collector item only. I will keep it permanently unless I see a 65 I like better as an upgrade. Don’t care if it decreases as it is a cheap
No, that's fine. Coins should be fun. I'm a firm believer that collectors should buy what they like and expect to lose money on them. But you started this thread by saying that your "strategy is to buy coins with great luster, strike..." And you were contrasting that with people who bought top pop coins and trying to make money on them. I don't see buying nice widgets as a "strategy" to make money on coins.
Just saying be very picky and buy only the best for the grade no matter if it is an expensive rare coin or modest collectible coin. That way when you sell you will achieve the best price
@jmlanzaf said:
No offense, but are you holding 64 Peace dollars in order to make a fortune on the price increase?
For 1922, NGC has graded 93,514 pieces as MS64, with 18,073 higher, PCGS comes in with 54,554 in MS64 and 8,703 higher.
In case anybody is interested in the numbers.
But how many have this degree of pretty flashy deep gold luster
A great many. As different posters have told you, the look of that coin is not particularly unusual or special. As a result, it’s unlikely to bring a meaningful premium, no matter how long it’s held.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@jmlanzaf said:
No offense, but are you holding 64 Peace dollars in order to make a fortune on the price increase?
For 1922, NGC has graded 93,514 pieces as MS64, with 18,073 higher, PCGS comes in with 54,554 in MS64 and 8,703 higher.
In case anybody is interested in the numbers.
But how many have this degree of pretty flashy deep gold luster
A great many. As different posters have told you, the look of that coin is not particularly unusual or special. As a result, it’s unlikely to bring a meaningful premium, no matter how long it’s held.
But the coin has minimal marks for the grade IMO. Think close to making 65 grade, in old Ngc holder. What do you think Mr. Feld on the grade? I didn’t buy to make a profit just loved the look of the coin which is even nicer when viewed in hand. Also no strong distracting heavy marks like I noticed in a-lot of 64 coins.
@tradedollarnut said:
Why stop at a 66 for $500? Why not be even more sensible and buy a 65 for $100 or less. How can you justify that extra $400 for one grade point?
A) you’re comfy with spending that much
B ) you can appreciate the difference in quality for the price
See what I did there?
But actually I am incorrect 66 can be bought for 200 or so in the most common dates. Even so $500 is 5x multiple not “100”
If everyone followed your collection philosophy, who would stand out? Probably those who paid a little extra for nice coins for the grade…that is until someone called them idiots for doing so. Let’s celebrate homogeneous mediocrity! Woohoo!
I would buy rarity combined with a super high grade. The Franklin guy lost $80,000 on his purchase from Legend Auctions and people are posting on this site that they think the coin isn’t even worth $40,000. They are calling him a fool and I am merely making an observation on smart buying not mediocre buying.
I don’t care how people spend their money. Just my opinion on how I would approach it. Also I would buy amazing coins at 3-5x multiples. Maybe 10 if incredible but never 100+ multiple
IMO, and not just mine, the mistake the guy made was not buying the Franklin in the first place, but in attempting to "flip" it so soon after he had bought it. The market then had the added information that one set of very strong hands wasn't competing, and reason to wonder what was wrong with the coin. No idea if the new owner is buried or not, but he'll have a lot easier time making a profit (even adjusting for inflation) selling in 5-10 years than he would today.
Would you invest your hard earned cash in this coin?
@tradedollarnut said:
Why stop at a 66 for $500? Why not be even more sensible and buy a 65 for $100 or less. How can you justify that extra $400 for one grade point?
A) you’re comfy with spending that much
B ) you can appreciate the difference in quality for the price
See what I did there?
But actually I am incorrect 66 can be bought for 200 or so in the most common dates. Even so $500 is 5x multiple not “100”
If everyone followed your collection philosophy, who would stand out? Probably those who paid a little extra for nice coins for the grade…that is until someone called them idiots for doing so. Let’s celebrate homogeneous mediocrity! Woohoo!
I would buy rarity combined with a super high grade. The Franklin guy lost $80,000 on his purchase from Legend Auctions and people are posting on this site that they think the coin isn’t even worth $40,000. They are calling him a fool and I am merely making an observation on smart buying not mediocre buying.
I don’t care how people spend their money. Just my opinion on how I would approach it. Also I would buy amazing coins at 3-5x multiples. Maybe 10 if incredible but never 100+ multiple
IMO, and not just mine, the mistake the guy made was not buying the Franklin in the first place, but in attempting to "flip" it so soon after he had bought it. The market then had the added information that one set of very strong hands wasn't competing, and reason to wonder what was wrong with the coin. No idea if the new owner is buried or not, but he'll have a lot easier time making a profit (even adjusting for inflation) selling in 5-10 years than he would today.
Would you invest your hard earned cash in this coin?
No. My collecting interests run in a different directions, and I attempt not to "invest" in coins anyway, by which I mean when I calculate my net worth, I exclude my coins. In the area my interests lie, there can be significant liquidity issues.
For whatever it's worth, though, I don't buy coins I don't expect to be willing and able to hold for at least five years, hopefully longer.
@jmlanzaf said:
No offense, but are you holding 64 Peace dollars in order to make a fortune on the price increase?
For 1922, NGC has graded 93,514 pieces as MS64, with 18,073 higher, PCGS comes in with 54,554 in MS64 and 8,703 higher.
In case anybody is interested in the numbers.
But how many have this degree of pretty flashy deep gold luster
A great many. As different posters have told you, the look of that coin is not particularly unusual or special. As a result, it’s unlikely to bring a meaningful premium, no matter how long it’s held.
But the coin has minimal marks for the grade IMO. Think close to making 65 grade, in old Ngc holder. What do you think Mr. Feld on the grade?
@jmlanzaf said:
No offense, but are you holding 64 Peace dollars in order to make a fortune on the price increase?
For 1922, NGC has graded 93,514 pieces as MS64, with 18,073 higher, PCGS comes in with 54,554 in MS64 and 8,703 higher.
In case anybody is interested in the numbers.
But how many have this degree of pretty flashy deep gold luster
A great many. As different posters have told you, the look of that coin is not particularly unusual or special. As a result, it’s unlikely to bring a meaningful premium, no matter how long it’s held.
But the coin has minimal marks for the grade IMO. Think close to making 65 grade, in old Ngc holder. What do you think Mr. Feld on the grade? I didn’t buy to make a profit just loved the look of the coin which is even nicer when viewed in hand. Also no strong distracting heavy marks like I noticed in a-lot of 64 coins.
I think it’s great that you like it so much. But in answer to your question, while it looks like a nice example for the grade, it’s an extremely common coin in common condition.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Rubicon. With all due respect, your Peace Dollar is not all that special and does not possess “superb eye appeal”. I just want to help you evolve as a solid numismatist. I’m not trying to “steal” your coin.
Your coin is worth around $100 in its current grade- yes? If you manage to get the full point upgrade, the coin jumps in value to about $225- yes? But, the cost of getting that upgrade is likely to be around $30-$70. And, then, your coin likely becomes a “lower end” MS65 at that point and loses its older holder. Maybe it only fetches $200 net to you, at best, on the sale- yes? But, now you have $150++ into the coin. Hence, the upgrading becomes problematic, further limiting the “specialness” of the piece.
On the other hand, I like your Lincoln cent! Keep up the passion, maintain an open mind and learn from the replies of the best out there, like MFeld!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@jmlanzaf said:
No offense, but are you holding 64 Peace dollars in order to make a fortune on the price increase?
For 1922, NGC has graded 93,514 pieces as MS64, with 18,073 higher, PCGS comes in with 54,554 in MS64 and 8,703 higher.
In case anybody is interested in the numbers.
But how many have this degree of pretty flashy deep gold luster
A great many. As different posters have told you, the look of that coin is not particularly unusual or special. As a result, it’s unlikely to bring a meaningful premium, no matter how long it’s held.
But the coin has minimal marks for the grade IMO. Think close to making 65 grade, in old Ngc holder. What do you think Mr. Feld on the grade? I didn’t buy to make a profit just loved the look of the coin which is even nicer when viewed in hand. Also no strong distracting heavy marks like I noticed in a-lot of 64 coins.
I think it’s great that you like it so much. But in answer to your question, while it looks like a nice example for the grade, it’s an extremely common coin in common condition.
Agreed.
It wouldn't be an issue at all if he hadn't started by calling the Franklin buyer an idiot for buying a coin he liked. And then he went on to claim he had the better "investment strategy" of buying "exceptional" coins for the grade which were less than top pop.
Everyone should buy what they like. That also means recognizing that others may like something different. And The Market is the ultimate arbiter of all those different likes and dislikes. Fight The Market at your own peril.
@wondercoin said:
Rubicon. With all due respect, your Peace Dollar is not all that special and does not possess “superb eye appeal”. I just want to help you evolve as a solid numismatist. I’m not trying to “steal” your coin.
Your coin is worth around $100 in its current grade- yes? If you manage to get the full point upgrade, the coin jumps in value to about $225- yes? But, the cost of getting that upgrade is likely to be around $30-$70. And, then, your coin likely becomes a “lower end” MS65 at that point and loses its older holder. Maybe it only fetches $200 net to you, at best, on the sale- yes? But, now you have $150++ into the coin. Hence, the upgrading becomes problematic, further limiting the “specialness” of the piece.
On the other hand, I like your Lincoln cent! Keep up the passion, maintain an open mind and learn from the replies of the best out there, like MFeld!
Wondercoin
@wondercoin said:
Rubicon. With all due respect, your Peace Dollar is not all that special and does not possess “superb eye appeal”. I just want to help you evolve as a solid numismatist. I’m not trying to “steal” your coin.
Your coin is worth around $100 in its current grade- yes? If you manage to get the full point upgrade, the coin jumps in value to about $225- yes? But, the cost of getting that upgrade is likely to be around $30-$70. And, then, your coin likely becomes a “lower end” MS65 at that point and loses its older holder. Maybe it only fetches $200 net to you, at best, on the sale- yes? But, now you have $150++ into the coin. Hence, the upgrading becomes problematic, further limiting the “specialness” of the piece.
On the other hand, I like your Lincoln cent! Keep up the passion, maintain an open mind and learn from the replies of the best out there, like MFeld!
Wondercoin
Thanks for your valuable feedback. I just wish you were able to see the Peace dollar in hand to judge the eye appeal factor. The picture doesn’t do justice to the actual coin. The booming luster illuminates the gold toning to make for a beautiful effect. Maybe I can try and retake photo for you to catch this effect so you can see what I mean
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
@asheland said:
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
@asheland said:
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. That means any collector (or non collector) can spot a high end coin if they see a coin that jumps out at them. You put no emphasis on years of experience, study of the series, review of thousands of similar coins, spotting coins that may be messed with, etc. So you are hyping a system with no experience necessary but warning to be careful about CAC? Sorry, I cant recommend anyone follow your advice.
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
You're confusing the total grade with one distracting mark. CAC approval means it is SOLID FOR THE GRADE. It's not an eye appeal designation. You can be solidly 64, for example, with a dark spot. The grade assigned includes bonuses for strike and luster and eye appeal and corresponding deductions for things like distracting marks.
@DelawareDoons said:
I am a part-time "dealer" at best and I turn over my inventory value 6-8 times a year.
I still tuck away 10-20 pieces minimum every year, and that eats most of my profits. As I like to say, keep the best, sell the rest. I would guess I keep one in every 20 or so coins I buy, if you exempt bullion/junk/wholesale material. The plan is to go to a major show when I'm ready to sell out altogether, price aggressively, and see what moves. With my eye for quality coins at affordable levels, I bet I will clear most of my inventory in a day or two, even priced strongly.
Where might one be able to look over your inventory? I am interested to see your offerings.
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
You're confusing the total grade with one distracting mark. CAC approval means it is SOLID FOR THE GRADE. It's not an eye appeal designation. You can be solidly 64, for example, with a dark spot. The grade assigned includes bonuses for strike and luster and eye appeal and corresponding deductions for things like distracting marks.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
You're confusing the total grade with one distracting mark. CAC approval means it is SOLID FOR THE GRADE. It's not an eye appeal designation. You can be solidly 64, for example, with a dark spot. The grade assigned includes bonuses for strike and luster and eye appeal and corresponding deductions for things like distracting marks.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
Yes, quite possibly. It depends on what you mean by "dark spotting". Where there might be an eye difference is in what people consider "original skin" vs. "tarnish". JA (CAC) likes "original skin" but, of course, some people find any toning to be distracting.
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
You're confusing the total grade with one distracting mark. CAC approval means it is SOLID FOR THE GRADE. It's not an eye appeal designation. You can be solidly 64, for example, with a dark spot. The grade assigned includes bonuses for strike and luster and eye appeal and corresponding deductions for things like distracting marks.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
Yes, quite possibly. It depends on what you mean by "dark spotting". Where there might be an eye difference is in what people consider "original skin" vs. "tarnish". JA (CAC) likes "original skin" but, of course, some people find any toning to be distracting.
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
You're confusing the total grade with one distracting mark. CAC approval means it is SOLID FOR THE GRADE. It's not an eye appeal designation. You can be solidly 64, for example, with a dark spot. The grade assigned includes bonuses for strike and luster and eye appeal and corresponding deductions for things like distracting marks.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
Yes, quite possibly. It depends on what you mean by "dark spotting". Where there might be an eye difference is in what people consider "original skin" vs. "tarnish". JA (CAC) likes "original skin" but, of course, some people find any toning to be distracting.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
You should go to some shows, clubs, auctions... and look at as many graded coins as possible. That’s the way only way to learn to accurately grade.
Many on this board have decades of experience. They are experts. It would behoove you to listen to them.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
You should go to some shows, clubs, auctions... and look at as many graded coins as possible. That’s the way only way to learn to accurately grade.
Many on this board have decades of experience. They are experts. It would behoove you to listen to them.
Thanks for your good advice
@gschwernk said:
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. That means any collector (or non collector) can spot a high end coin if they see a coin that jumps out at them. You put no emphasis on years of experience, study of the series, review of thousands of similar coins, spotting coins that may be messed with, etc. So you are hyping a system with no experience necessary but warning to be careful about CAC? Sorry, I cant recommend anyone follow your advice.
I respect your opinion and those with the vast experience of many collecting years. But I am not a complete neophyte to coins. I collected many years as a kid, looking at and buying coins at that time from Norman Pullen, Larry Shepherd, Ellesmere Numismatics and Anthony Swiatek. Also went to the N.Y. shows back then. Now at 67 I have rediscovered our great hobby. So I have compared a few thousand coins I have seen online for sale. I also went to a few coin shows, just need to go to more and sharpen my grading skills. I feel I have a good eye for that look called eye appeal. So I have strict criteria for what I buy and it has to have a certain look for me. That look is the 1935 Lincoln I posted a picture of. Fully struck, amazing luster, fresh original looking surfaces no black tarnish and very minute marks. I only buy coins that I understand, and will research other coins and series where I am lacking in knowledge. Anyway I appreciate all the well meaning feedback and want to learn more from you guys.
@tradedollarnut said:
Why stop at a 66 for $500? Why not be even more sensible and buy a 65 for $100 or less. How can you justify that extra $400 for one grade point?
A) you’re comfy with spending that much
B ) you can appreciate the difference in quality for the price
See what I did there?
But actually I am incorrect 66 can be bought for 200 or so in the most common dates. Even so $500 is 5x multiple not “100”
If everyone followed your collection philosophy, who would stand out? Probably those who paid a little extra for nice coins for the grade…that is until someone called them idiots for doing so. Let’s celebrate homogeneous mediocrity! Woohoo!
I would buy rarity combined with a super high grade. The Franklin guy lost $80,000 on his purchase from Legend Auctions and people are posting on this site that they think the coin isn’t even worth $40,000. They are calling him a fool and I am merely making an observation on smart buying not mediocre buying.
I don’t care how people spend their money. Just my opinion on how I would approach it. Also I would buy amazing coins at 3-5x multiples. Maybe 10 if incredible but never 100+ multiple
IMO, and not just mine, the mistake the guy made was not buying the Franklin in the first place, but in attempting to "flip" it so soon after he had bought it. The market then had the added information that one set of very strong hands wasn't competing, and reason to wonder what was wrong with the coin. No idea if the new owner is buried or not, but he'll have a lot easier time making a profit (even adjusting for inflation) selling in 5-10 years than he would today.
Who knows in 5-10 years if there will be interested buyers at such a high number. May only bring $10-15k as this is an extremely thinly traded market.
TBH, the basic theme of this thread is a bit boring - an IMO crazy price for a decent coin. Not the Holy Grail for many besides "ego buster" well-funded investors and flippers with the odd collector thrown in. Value for money compared to what else might be had for like money? IMO not there at all, but to each their own as certainly people have thrown away money on much worse.
The other point is just that the buyer (or even some of the posters on this thread) may have cubic bucks does NOT mean they are somehow more sophisticated or have greater meaningful knowledge than those without that sort of money to put on the table.
What is there to learn from this thread? Obviously different opinions and values for different readers and posters...
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@asheland said:
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
That’s a beautiful coin.
I was just going to ask if he passed because the slab is cracked
There are reports that billionaires got 54% richer during pandemic and Laura has indicated more billionaires are buying coins. With a fixed amount of coins, what should we expect?
@asheland said:
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
That’s a beautiful coin.
I was just going to ask if he passed because the slab is cracked
@asheland said:
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
That’s a beautiful coin.
I was just going to ask if he passed because the slab is cracked
I don’t think these super big ticket high grade common coins selling way over PCGS price guide rofl (purchased by wealthy buyers) are any indicator of some ultra huge bull market one should invest heavily in by any stretch of the imagination. However it may be a good time unload some of this material.
For unbiased opinion on market I refer to Richard’s column in NN. Another source is the PCGS 3000.
@trueblood said:
I want the best of all world's.
I want coin collecting to be an excellent hobby as well as an excellent investment. Heck if it is a great investment for a dealer, why can't it be a the same for a buyer/collector? So I buy less coins due to upward price movements but I get more appreciation with each addition. I hope sports memorabilia and world coins move up to, its been a long drought.
Dealers don't invest in coins. They buy and sell them.
Dealers buy coins to make a profit that is equivalent to investing imo
Why should collectors be expected to ( ie its not unexpected to) lose money the minute they walk out of a dealership?
It is truly not the same thing. There's a huge difference between profiting on the bid/ask spread vs profiting from price appreciation.
And yet…the result is profit…
True, but most people would not call the bread truck pulling up at Walmart as Walmart "investing" in bread.
If I find a quarter in a parking lot, I profited but I didn't invest.
Yes you did invest. You invested time and labor to pick the quarter up.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Comments
I’ll admit I wanted one of those 68+, specifically the 1941, but not at that price. I did not get to see them in person- I have to work if I’m going to buy!
Coin looks like a Picasso! Prefer this beautiful natural look over the wildly toned 1958 Franklin. I can easily see someone getting carried away with the bidding as the toning in combination with the grade makes this an unbelievable coin but I think I would probably stop at $15k maybe 20k.
Answer:
5x the value of the next lower grade of MS-67 or MS-67+
I love MS-66 graded walkers. I also love MS-67 and MS-68 walkers.
I also enjoy MS-64 walkers as well with awesome luster yet showing very weak strikes.
Even MS-63 walkers!
Remember Russ?
He had wonderful MS-64 walkers.
IMO, and not just mine, the mistake the guy made was not buying the Franklin in the first place, but in attempting to "flip" it so soon after he had bought it. The market then had the added information that one set of very strong hands wasn't competing, and reason to wonder what was wrong with the coin. No idea if the new owner is buried or not, but he'll have a lot easier time making a profit (even adjusting for inflation) selling in 5-10 years than he would today.
I agree, but consider that coins are not a revenue investment. A dealer would have to have an outside source of income to hold his coins rather than flip them. This is why dealers have to pay such low prices for coins that are likely to be illiquid.
But how many have this degree of pretty flashy deep gold luster
Just saying be very picky and buy only the best for the grade no matter if it is an expensive rare coin or modest collectible coin. That way when you sell you will achieve the best price
A great many. As different posters have told you, the look of that coin is not particularly unusual or special. As a result, it’s unlikely to bring a meaningful premium, no matter how long it’s held.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But the coin has minimal marks for the grade IMO. Think close to making 65 grade, in old Ngc holder. What do you think Mr. Feld on the grade? I didn’t buy to make a profit just loved the look of the coin which is even nicer when viewed in hand. Also no strong distracting heavy marks like I noticed in a-lot of 64 coins.
Would you invest your hard earned cash in this coin?
No. My collecting interests run in a different directions, and I attempt not to "invest" in coins anyway, by which I mean when I calculate my net worth, I exclude my coins. In the area my interests lie, there can be significant liquidity issues.
For whatever it's worth, though, I don't buy coins I don't expect to be willing and able to hold for at least five years, hopefully longer.
5x the market value of a nice white coin
I think it’s great that you like it so much. But in answer to your question, while it looks like a nice example for the grade, it’s an extremely common coin in common condition.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
“Franklin butter”
That’s one I don’t know about!
Side comment- why are common coins (1922 $ in 64) in very common grades from other coin series now being displayed in THIS thread? The point again?
Wondercoin
I was asked by Gazes to post some coins that were examples of superb eye appeal
Lol. That was supposed to be "Franklin buyer".
Rubicon. With all due respect, your Peace Dollar is not all that special and does not possess “superb eye appeal”. I just want to help you evolve as a solid numismatist. I’m not trying to “steal” your coin.
Your coin is worth around $100 in its current grade- yes? If you manage to get the full point upgrade, the coin jumps in value to about $225- yes? But, the cost of getting that upgrade is likely to be around $30-$70. And, then, your coin likely becomes a “lower end” MS65 at that point and loses its older holder. Maybe it only fetches $200 net to you, at best, on the sale- yes? But, now you have $150++ into the coin. Hence, the upgrading becomes problematic, further limiting the “specialness” of the piece.
On the other hand, I like your Lincoln cent! Keep up the passion, maintain an open mind and learn from the replies of the best out there, like MFeld!
Wondercoin
Agreed.
It wouldn't be an issue at all if he hadn't started by calling the Franklin buyer an idiot for buying a coin he liked. And then he went on to claim he had the better "investment strategy" of buying "exceptional" coins for the grade which were less than top pop.
Everyone should buy what they like. That also means recognizing that others may like something different. And The Market is the ultimate arbiter of all those different likes and dislikes. Fight The Market at your own peril.
Unfortunately, a lot of peace dollars in that grade have great eye appeal, but they're only 64s and I don't believe they have much potential. I'm looking for a nice peace dollar and am frustrated lately as none that I have seen do much to impress me. I kinda wish I would have gotten the 67 I had an opportunity to get last year:
My YouTube Channel
Eye appeal can be subjective at times. I believe the dealer community though experience (seeing many coins and discussing many coins with other dealers) are generally consistant in evaluating what on averge constitutes good eye appeal. CAC attempts to formalize this experience to aid the collector. But each collector might have a very different opinion of what constitutes eye appeal. Historically, I have simply purchased coins that appealed to me. Recently, the premiums attained and the easy of sale of CAC coins are forcing me to alter my approach.
That’s a beautiful coin.
I was impressed. Kinda wish I had gotten it.
My YouTube Channel
I think when you see a coin that jumps out at you and says buy me, that’s your eye appeal winner. CAC is good as a second opinion and for additional Market value. Be careful though as some CAC coins have black tarnish spots or are lacking in eye appeal. I believe a lot of their grading is technical in nature revolving around marks and strike as opposed to luster, flash and exceptional eye appeal.
You’d be wrong
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. That means any collector (or non collector) can spot a high end coin if they see a coin that jumps out at them. You put no emphasis on years of experience, study of the series, review of thousands of similar coins, spotting coins that may be messed with, etc. So you are hyping a system with no experience necessary but warning to be careful about CAC? Sorry, I cant recommend anyone follow your advice.
You're confusing the total grade with one distracting mark. CAC approval means it is SOLID FOR THE GRADE. It's not an eye appeal designation. You can be solidly 64, for example, with a dark spot. The grade assigned includes bonuses for strike and luster and eye appeal and corresponding deductions for things like distracting marks.
Where might one be able to look over your inventory? I am interested to see your offerings.
Thanks for that information.
So that 64 that has dark spotting would probably grade a 65 by CAC standards if the coins surfaces were clean and pristine?
Yes, quite possibly. It depends on what you mean by "dark spotting". Where there might be an eye difference is in what people consider "original skin" vs. "tarnish". JA (CAC) likes "original skin" but, of course, some people find any toning to be distracting.
.
The sellers have to be delighted.
Only time will tell if the new investors are the end user. Perhaps it is chump change to them and they want the best grade they can get.
Hoping to get this thread back on track... That 1941 is spectacular looking!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You should go to some shows, clubs, auctions... and look at as many graded coins as possible. That’s the way only way to learn to accurately grade.
Many on this board have decades of experience. They are experts. It would behoove you to listen to them.
I respect your opinion and those with the vast experience of many collecting years. But I am not a complete neophyte to coins. I collected many years as a kid, looking at and buying coins at that time from Norman Pullen, Larry Shepherd, Ellesmere Numismatics and Anthony Swiatek. Also went to the N.Y. shows back then. Now at 67 I have rediscovered our great hobby. So I have compared a few thousand coins I have seen online for sale. I also went to a few coin shows, just need to go to more and sharpen my grading skills. I feel I have a good eye for that look called eye appeal. So I have strict criteria for what I buy and it has to have a certain look for me. That look is the 1935 Lincoln I posted a picture of. Fully struck, amazing luster, fresh original looking surfaces no black tarnish and very minute marks. I only buy coins that I understand, and will research other coins and series where I am lacking in knowledge. Anyway I appreciate all the well meaning feedback and want to learn more from you guys.
Who knows in 5-10 years if there will be interested buyers at such a high number. May only bring $10-15k as this is an extremely thinly traded market.
Time for this thread to die or get back on track
Latin American Collection
TBH, the basic theme of this thread is a bit boring - an IMO crazy price for a decent coin. Not the Holy Grail for many besides "ego buster" well-funded investors and flippers with the odd collector thrown in. Value for money compared to what else might be had for like money? IMO not there at all, but to each their own as certainly people have thrown away money on much worse.
The other point is just that the buyer (or even some of the posters on this thread) may have cubic bucks does NOT mean they are somehow more sophisticated or have greater meaningful knowledge than those without that sort of money to put on the table.
What is there to learn from this thread? Obviously different opinions and values for different readers and posters...
Well, just Love coins, period.
All I got from this thread is that my MS-64 Peace Dollar can beat up your MS-65 CAC Peace Dollar on a good day.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Lol. That's funny. I learned that my MS-65 peace dollar can beat up your MS-64 on a BAD day
I was just going to ask if he passed because the slab is cracked
There are reports that billionaires got 54% richer during pandemic and Laura has indicated more billionaires are buying coins. With a fixed amount of coins, what should we expect?
That was a big part of it...
My YouTube Channel
$10 or $12 fix at a show where PCGS is onsite!
I don’t think these super big ticket high grade common coins selling way over PCGS price guide rofl (purchased by wealthy buyers) are any indicator of some ultra huge bull market one should invest heavily in by any stretch of the imagination. However it may be a good time unload some of this material.
For unbiased opinion on market I refer to Richard’s column in NN. Another source is the PCGS 3000.
Yes you did invest. You invested time and labor to pick the quarter up.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc