Opinions on this 1794 Large Cent?
asheland
Posts: 23,198 ✭✭✭✭✭
I’m considering this one. It’s PCGS graded, I’m curious what you guys think it’s graded at...
And what do you think about surfaces and eye appeal?
It’s a four figure coin and I don’t do copper, I’m not that experienced with the early Copper...
4
Comments
Don’t know enough about old copper to say more than that I like it.
I like the details in the 25-30 range. I can also live with the surfaces but depending on the grader it could get the classic Env. Damage.
Too dark for my tastes, otherwise a nice example.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Not really all that up on copper this old, some rim dings rather dark with porous surfaces which is not all that unusual but slightly less desirable/appealing. Details are nice but maybe the surfaces brought it down to 10 or 12. If the price is right I would not kick it out of bed, however not one that I'd be inclined to pay a premium price.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I'd be happy to own that coin, but price would be a factor, of course.
It is a Sheldon S-70 variety which is rated at low rarity 2. This fairly low rarity will factor into the price.
It is a very early die state, before the characteristic die crack between T and Y developed.
It appears to have smooth but quite dark surfaces, and no major damage. Considering this I would grade it at F12-F15.
Dark but nice amount of detail. I would guess grade at VF-20.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Well that’s one hell of a nice cent 👍👍👍
15+/20
Head of 1795, Sheldon 70. VF 30 or so details but corroded. Would be very surprised if it straight graded.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Nice old copper cent.... Not a copper expert, so will take the opinions above on grade. Any U.S. coin date beginning with '17' is amazing to me.... Cheers, RickO
I detect mildly glandular, dark surfaces, which means that the coin will not get a straight grade if you send it to PCGS. Given the Chinese counterfeit problem, authentication is highly desirable these days, but the question is, will it be cost effective for this coin? With a sharpness grade in the VF area and a probable net grade of VG to Fine, it’s marginal.
You say it's PCGS graded. Is it 'details' graded or straight graded?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Pass. It is a problem coin.
It’s a straight graded F12
My YouTube Channel
I like the range of opinions, especially when it’s an area I’m not that familiar with.
Thanks everybody! 👍
My YouTube Channel
(I still haven’t made a decision). I’ll update the thread when I do.
My YouTube Channel
I’m just now checking it out in person. Here’s a slab shot:
My YouTube Channel
at the shop? The slab image makes it look better IMO.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
The slab image makes it look better IMO.
Agreed! Looks smoother and lighter than the original pictures, and more desirable.
So which is truer? If the coin really looks like the first photos, I'm surprised it straight graded.
I'm guessing it's somewhere in between, a fairly meaty '94, that I'm also guessing was netted down a bit for surface issues.
I'd also advise the OP, that if he doesn't have much experience with copper as he said, and this coin is >$1000, that you look at more coins, auction records, etc. before spending that much money, to ensure the value is there. Without knowing the price or the real appearance, my gut reaction is that you can probably do better, and with a $1000+ budget, look for one with lighter, smoother surfaces.
@ajaan Yeah, it's Michael's.
My YouTube Channel
Great advice!
I'm thinking I will wait for another example that talks to me more than this one...
My YouTube Channel
It's awfully cool, no doubt about it, and the slab shot makes it look a lot nicer than the true view, which is not normally the case. But indeed the surfaces look grainy and slightly like a dug up coin.. It still a terrific coin, but I think that the issues mentioned will bother me in time if I end up getting it.
My YouTube Channel
Here is the true view ..
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
This is one of mine, in a genuine holder, probably in the same price range (under $2k). Ignore the areas of glare over the cap, head, and bottom, and scratches are on the slab. The coin is uniform medium chocolate with very slight granularity visible under magnification. It’s also in or near the condition census for the variety.
So yes, it's a 'problem coin', but one purchased with some knowledge and background, allowing me to make a relatively informed decision.
FWIW... I'd be on the fence on this one... I'm seeing VF details with uniform fine granularity on the OP. It looked a little better in the slab image, but the corrosion is still there. IMHO, I think that issue along with the light scratches and tick marks on the reverse (through "OF" down to the leaves, and hits above "N" in ONE) got it into a straight graded F12 holder... ie. it was "net-graded". EAC graders do this all the time. I've lost count on the number of Middle Date and Late Date LC's with Grellman cards I've owned over the years that give the "details" grade/net graded for (insert problem descriptor here). That said, EAC grades are not TPG grades... so it depends on how you want to enjoy your 1794 LC and if you can live with the problems at that price point.
Trust me... if you're counting pennies, expect to spend twice what's on this coin for a "problem free" VF... and just because it's in a straight-graded holder doesn't mean that there aren't any issues. They're just not stated on the slab.
...something about "buying the coin and not the holder"... springs to mind. Lastly, if you're waiting for a truly "problem-free" example of a '94 Liberty Cap, you will be waiting a very long time.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I heartily agree: Truly problem free early cents are very difficult to find.
I have been collecting early large cents for over 30 years and have only a very few, a handful maybe that even approach that category. This is one I like very much. Not 100 % problem free either, (but close enough for me and my budget).
Wow! How times and grading have changed.
Twenty years ago, this 1794 cent was bounced back to me in a body bag.
This 1797 half cent also came back as a "no grade."
As did this 1797 cent which was given a straight grade later after I had sold it.
... My Gawd... those are gorgeous!! grader was having a bad day that day???
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Bill. I’d be happy to take those body bag coins off your hands!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@BillJones Those are nice!
My YouTube Channel
So would I, although I do see why the first two were given the BB.
Collector, occasional seller
I was perusing large cents on eBay and at several big dealerships last week, and I was very surprised at what I was seeing in straight grade holders. @lkenefic gave advice that should be heeded.
Here are the slab shots posted above, but cropped.
Collector, occasional seller
I think we were looking at a lot of the same coins!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.