@trueblood said:
Rexford,
You are a dealer, therefore it behooves you to want prices to be rising, I get that,I appreciate that and I am seeing it but this auction in particular is not something that can be relied upon as setting value for Fair half dismes and should be ignored by any and all price guides because it makes zero sense. I still wonder if it gets paid.
I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I am not currently working as a dealer. That being said, I often heard similar sentiments about my motives from forums members here while I was dealing, and I never appreciated it. I do my best to remain unbiased in my posts, and I study certain areas of the market and of numismatics in general because I enjoy doing so and am interested in those topics. It was also part of my job as a dealer to understand the markets, not to think wishfully about them. And yes, I agree that this auction has no or next to no effect on the value of half dismes as a whole, that was my initial point.
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Sorry but I am confused, what do you mean exactly when you say " you bought the F15 copy"? I cannot decipher the word "copy" , did you by an actual copy or a genuine piece?
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
GSchwernk,
BTW did you know the following are available:
From RCTV a PCGS VF asking price $120,000
From Collectors Corner PCGS XF45 asking price $145,000 & 2 NGC repaired damaged/examples but I realize you are looking for PCGS holders
How long have you been trying to acquire an example?
@Rexford said:
The FR02 example sold for as much as it did due to the backstory and publicity, not due to the grade. The market finds things like that hot right now. Comparing its result to that of another example does not make much sense, and valuing another example based upon its result certainly does not.
The back story was a nothing burger, I cannot believe that the story motivated anyone. The publicity was minimal imo. Similar to a guy finding a bag of cash in an old goodwill couch. What happened here imo is a newly crowned millionaire found something that intrigued him and didn't buy the book because he was over laden with cash which allows for mistakes.
@Rexford said:
The FR02 example sold for as much as it did due to the backstory and publicity, not due to the grade. The market finds things like that hot right now. Comparing its result to that of another example does not make much sense, and valuing another example based upon its result certainly does not.
The back story was a nothing burger, I cannot believe that the story motivated anyone. The publicity was minimal imo. Similar to a guy finding a bag of cash in an old goodwill couch. What happened here imo is a newly crowned millionaire found something that intrigued him and didn't buy the book because he was over laden with cash which allows for mistakes.
Did you mean two newly crowned millionaires?
Hey, could possibly be, there have ben a lot of newly created millionaires from:
Real estate appreciation
Bitcoin etc
Stock market elevation
gold rising
The list goes on, in fact certain segments of the business world took advantage or accelerated due to Covid
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
PCGS Price guide for a general ms63 was $280k , so it went for a bit less due to negative eye appeal. Why would someone assume it wouldn't go for around $250k? Remembering he is the one who was bidding his up.
If he stayed out of the auction that he bid on he would have had a shot at the ms63 at a more than reasonable price imo
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
PCGS Price guide for a general ms63 was $280k , so it went for a bit less due to negative eye appeal. Why would someone assume it wouldn't go for around $250k? Remembering he is the one who was bidding his up.
If he stayed out of the auction that he bid on he would have had a shot at the ms63 at a more than reasonable price imo
The one that just sold for $252,000 was an NGC example. He was talking about one graded by PCGS. All other things being equal, I think it would be reasonable to expect the latter to exceed the price of the former.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
PCGS Price guide for a general ms63 was $280k , so it went for a bit less due to negative eye appeal. Why would someone assume it wouldn't go for around $250k? Remembering he is the one who was bidding his up.
If he stayed out of the auction that he bid on he would have had a shot at the ms63 at a more than reasonable price imo
The one that just sold for $252,000 was an NGC example. He was talking about one graded by PCGS. All other things being equal, I think it would be reasonable to expect the latter to exceed the price of the former.
Hmmm. I cannot justify the price of the Great Collections piece no matter how much of a buy market we may or may not be in. I often stretch for great pieces but I cannot rap my head around this one and believe that there is going to be pain felt in the future on this auction sale, wish it weren't so, but.....
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
PCGS Price guide for a general ms63 was $280k , so it went for a bit less due to negative eye appeal. Why would someone assume it wouldn't go for around $250k? Remembering he is the one who was bidding his up.
If he stayed out of the auction that he bid on he would have had a shot at the ms63 at a more than reasonable price imo
The one that just sold for $252,000 was an NGC example. He was talking about one graded by PCGS. All other things being equal, I think it would be reasonable to expect the latter to exceed the price of the former.
Hmmm. I cannot justify the price of the Great Collections piece no matter how much of a buy market we may or may not be in. I often stretch for great pieces but I cannot rap my head around this one and believe that there is going to be pain felt in the future on this auction sale, wish it weren't so, but.....
I wasn’t suggesting that you do so. I was merely addressing your confusion regarding the comment about an MS63 example.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@gschwernk said:
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
PCGS Price guide for a general ms63 was $280k , so it went for a bit less due to negative eye appeal. Why would someone assume it wouldn't go for around $250k? Remembering he is the one who was bidding his up.
If he stayed out of the auction that he bid on he would have had a shot at the ms63 at a more than reasonable price imo
The one that just sold for $252,000 was an NGC example. He was talking about one graded by PCGS. All other things being equal, I think it would be reasonable to expect the latter to exceed the price of the former.
Hmmm. I cannot justify the price of the Great Collections piece no matter how much of a buy market we may or may not be in. I often stretch for great pieces but I cannot rap my head around this one and believe that there is going to be pain felt in the future on this auction sale, wish it weren't so, but.....
What he is saying is PCGS early federal coins enjoy healthy premiums over their NGC counterparts which is undeniable. If a NGC example fetched $250k, a PCGS example would certainly fetch more at auction. On another note, the coin looks maxed out in a 63 holder and a bit over graded to be honest. I don't think a solid 63 in NGC plastic could be had for $250k either.
@1northcoin said:
This may have been the dirt find half disme I recalled. Went for $11,500.00 in a 2014 Stack's Auction. "Coin World" article references obverse as Good 3 and reverse as Fair 2.
When it comes to "the story" that goes with a 1792 half disme, it is hard to beat the one in the above linked Coin World article. In retrospect, I wish I had known about the auction at the time as I ended up paying more for another that was not represented to be of any better quality.
If the story is what truly is what accounted for the influencing of an increase in value as most seem to believe then imagine what a great pedigree/provenance would accomplish and by a much greater margin, I would venture a story is typically only a subset of a great pedigree/provenance
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
was thinking about this little gal today, so bump.
Thanks for the bump, this was an entertaining read.
somehow during the bump to this thread, i saw somewhere (may have been in this thread) another half disme that had JUST enough detail to identify. like all the bust was gone, i think virtually the whole reverse but just enough of the Ha and Dis or something like that to see what it was. so i bet there are probably quite a few rarities out there floating around in pr/fr condition OR WORSE. lol
it really does take a lot of research and patience to determine what something is/might be sometimes. i used to have a little tub of stuff and 1 or 2 items i had quite resembled something like ireland st patrick farthings or whatever they're called but i was never able to fully match em up. same goes with euro/usa hibernias, rex i, ii, ii etc. several colonials have some serious overlap to foreign coppers, especially in severely worn/damaged condition. i really thought i'd find at least 1 amazing pull but it never happened, to my dismay.
I was at one of the Baltimore shows and came across this... at the time (and without having the coin in hand) I thought this might have been a half disme but now that I'm comparing... probably not. That doesn't take away from the other rarities in the case.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@lkenefic said:
I was at one of the Baltimore shows and came across this... at the time (and without having the coin in hand) I thought this might have been a half disme but now that I'm comparing... probably not. That doesn't take away from the other rarities in the case.
.
well this one is giving me a run for my money. TRY LIB sure looks to line up with the H10c and some of the curls and bust outline (kinda) but the hair coming out behind the ear doesn't match up. (not that it can't be re-engraved)
i really thought it may be some type of birch but those face right. i checked eureka's pattern site but nothing lines up.
can't be a DISME because that is a flowing hair.
UPDATED: that coin is 100% a half disme. i finally saw how those strands match up. all the visible letters, date, profile, hair etc line up. yay
Comments
I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I am not currently working as a dealer. That being said, I often heard similar sentiments about my motives from forums members here while I was dealing, and I never appreciated it. I do my best to remain unbiased in my posts, and I study certain areas of the market and of numismatics in general because I enjoy doing so and am interested in those topics. It was also part of my job as a dealer to understand the markets, not to think wishfully about them. And yes, I agree that this auction has no or next to no effect on the value of half dismes as a whole, that was my initial point.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Then we are in agreement
I purchased the F15 copy. I needed it to complete my Everyman Type set. I had been out bid 3 times for circulated copies of 1792 HD. I felt at the time I was overpaying by about 10K but did it anyway. I would rather have a MS63 for 250K for my collection of 100 greatest coins. I don't think a MS63 coin in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k.
Sorry but I am confused, what do you mean exactly when you say " you bought the F15 copy"? I cannot decipher the word "copy" , did you by an actual copy or a genuine piece?
I bought the F15 1792 coin pictured in this thread for $84,000 in a recent Heritage Auction.
Did you mean to say, I didn't think rather than "I don't think"? Again a bit confused by what you wrote?
Thanks
GSchwernk,
BTW did you know the following are available:
From RCTV a PCGS VF asking price $120,000
From Collectors Corner PCGS XF45 asking price $145,000 & 2 NGC repaired damaged/examples but I realize you are looking for PCGS holders
How long have you been trying to acquire an example?
Did you mean two newly crowned millionaires?
Hey, could possibly be, there have ben a lot of newly created millionaires from:
Real estate appreciation
Bitcoin etc
Stock market elevation
gold rising
The list goes on, in fact certain segments of the business world took advantage or accelerated due to Covid
But it stickered.
Why are you confused by what he wrote? Considering that an NGC 63 just brought $252,000, it makes sense that he’d say “I don’t think a MS63 in a PCGS holder could be had for 250k”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
PCGS Price guide for a general ms63 was $280k , so it went for a bit less due to negative eye appeal. Why would someone assume it wouldn't go for around $250k? Remembering he is the one who was bidding his up.
If he stayed out of the auction that he bid on he would have had a shot at the ms63 at a more than reasonable price imo
The one that just sold for $252,000 was an NGC example. He was talking about one graded by PCGS. All other things being equal, I think it would be reasonable to expect the latter to exceed the price of the former.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Hmmm. I cannot justify the price of the Great Collections piece no matter how much of a buy market we may or may not be in. I often stretch for great pieces but I cannot rap my head around this one and believe that there is going to be pain felt in the future on this auction sale, wish it weren't so, but.....
I wasn’t suggesting that you do so. I was merely addressing your confusion regarding the comment about an MS63 example.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What he is saying is PCGS early federal coins enjoy healthy premiums over their NGC counterparts which is undeniable. If a NGC example fetched $250k, a PCGS example would certainly fetch more at auction. On another note, the coin looks maxed out in a 63 holder and a bit over graded to be honest. I don't think a solid 63 in NGC plastic could be had for $250k either.
When it comes to "the story" that goes with a 1792 half disme, it is hard to beat the one in the above linked Coin World article. In retrospect, I wish I had known about the auction at the time as I ended up paying more for another that was not represented to be of any better quality.
If the story is what truly is what accounted for the influencing of an increase in value as most seem to believe then imagine what a great pedigree/provenance would accomplish and by a much greater margin, I would venture a story is typically only a subset of a great pedigree/provenance
I'm sorry to say this but the whoever paid over $100,000 for this coin .... Overpaid
was thinking about this little gal today, so bump.
Thanks for the bump, this was an entertaining read.
Collector, occasional seller
somehow during the bump to this thread, i saw somewhere (may have been in this thread) another half disme that had JUST enough detail to identify. like all the bust was gone, i think virtually the whole reverse but just enough of the Ha and Dis or something like that to see what it was. so i bet there are probably quite a few rarities out there floating around in pr/fr condition OR WORSE. lol
it really does take a lot of research and patience to determine what something is/might be sometimes. i used to have a little tub of stuff and 1 or 2 items i had quite resembled something like ireland st patrick farthings or whatever they're called but i was never able to fully match em up. same goes with euro/usa hibernias, rex i, ii, ii etc. several colonials have some serious overlap to foreign coppers, especially in severely worn/damaged condition. i really thought i'd find at least 1 amazing pull but it never happened, to my dismay.
I was at one of the Baltimore shows and came across this... at the time (and without having the coin in hand) I thought this might have been a half disme but now that I'm comparing... probably not. That doesn't take away from the other rarities in the case.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
.
well this one is giving me a run for my money. TRY LIB sure looks to line up with the H10c and some of the curls and bust outline (kinda) but the hair coming out behind the ear doesn't match up. (not that it can't be re-engraved)
i really thought it may be some type of birch but those face right. i checked eureka's pattern site but nothing lines up.
can't be a DISME because that is a flowing hair.
UPDATED: that coin is 100% a half disme. i finally saw how those strands match up. all the visible letters, date, profile, hair etc line up. yay