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Vacuum sealing red copper?
Clackamas1
Posts: 779 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have some of the top end coppers from Indians to present day. I always worry that they will RB over time. My top coins are all in small ziplocks in my safe. I would think that have zero oxygen would be the best. I have a vacuum sealer and was wondering should I vacuum seal the coins? I am a little hesitant because is creates a negative pressure that when released may introduce oxygen. Thoughts?
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…u just posted a 40k purchase…time for an underground bunker in the high desert
I've vacuum sealed brown error coins, but not for extended storage, just for shipping, but haven't ever sealed a MS state coin, but can't see that it would hurt it in any way EXCEPT, be sure of the vacuum seal packaging. Is it a PVC product? I looked on mine, but it doesn't say what the material is so I can't evaluate it.
You could take a 20mm Ammo can, put a valve in the top and with my vacuum sealer I can pump down the air inside so that it's at a negative pressure. OR displace the air with Nitrogen. You can get Nitrogen at the Costco Tire fill up pump since they use it in the tires they install. You can store whole of of coins in vacuum that way! You could also bury it so 3keepSECRETif2R DEAD can't find it!
Good luck, keep us informed, that's how we learn, by other peoples mistakes!....lol
Bruce
It was $49K but OK. ;} That is not even the most expensive coin in that date set.
I am concerned however with my coppers. I use to have a top end Lincoln cent set, I have a bunch of the top coins still. I keep them in zip locks. I will say my most recent acquisition is my most expensive copper and I am thinking long term for it. I also have a top end two cent RD 1868 so I am concerned about it as well.
Dang good advice - thank you. I did not even think about PVC.
Put your coins in a Tupperware container or a zip-lock bag with a silica gel capsule. Your coins should be safe and you would have easy access to them. Just dry out the silica capsules in your oven as needed. Most have a color changing feature that alert you when they are fully saturated,
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
never thought about drying them out. I save every single silica bag and I think I have hundreds in my safes. Every time we purchase a new electronic they come with them - they all end up in a safe.
Silica gel capsules can be bought commercially in various sizes and are popular for use in gun safes. Also, if you use a safe, there is a product called the "Golden Rod" that will keep the inside of your safe warm and drives out any moisture inside your safe.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Ugh. I hate the term "negative pressure". All pressure is positive. [Shudder]
My only fear, as someone else mentioned, is that the freezer bags aren't archival. This is probably not a huge issue if you are dealing a slab in a plastic bag but could be a huge problem for raw coins.
Freezer bags have to be safe for food storage so they won't be PVC and they will be totally inert.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Silica gel containers (various sizes are available) and ziploc bags should give you all the protection needed for a lifetime or two.... Cheers, RickO
Oregon is pretty wet and humid if you live west of the Cascades, (ex-Duck and Beaver myself...., and hopelessly still a Blazer fan), so I would start with Intercept Shield slab boxes (I use them here in the humid gulf region and they work fine), and the add silica gel to your storage container(s). These have to be replaced or dried out over time bc they suck up the water, but that gives double protection.
Best, SH
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If you are really concerned, moisture control is more important than no air at all. I would not use ziploc bags. Look up something called a "dry box" or vacuum desiccator. Some can be vacuum sealed and is used in the lab for just this purpose.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
From what I understand, the newest PCGS slabs are completely air and waterproof.
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Like @spacehayduke, I think that you might want to consider adding Intercept to the mix.
This material is specifically engineered to provide protection from oxidation.
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PVC is not the only polymer that can outgas
how much time? your lifetime? until you want to sell or long enough to let the heirs sort it out?
where you live will vastly affect the coins over the long term. how is your house. sealed up with a/c/furnace year-round? i'm a fresh air buff so windows are open as often as possible.
this has been discussed dozens of times just that i recall. you may find it useful to find some time to dig through the archives and read a lot for the few gems you may find.
this is more food for though than anything.
edited to add:
based on some comments from members that put their coins away (safely) for long-term storage and then come back to find nasty surprises, whether you like it or not and it may not bother you, don't estimate the importance of babysitting your coins. always check on them a few times a year or risk the consequences. hope it helps.
This is a great point! Plus it's fun to look at your coins from time to time 🙂
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
I've heard many horror stories around expensive high grade red copper. I generally avoid them, as a result, even though I love the Large Cent and IHC series. Silica gem (that gets replaced regularly), and a controlled humidity environment makes a lot of sense to me.
Dave
Just get everything in new PCGS holders and you won't have to worry about it. Plus the new holders are pretty dang nice.
Collector, occasional seller
There are ways to control it, but the HVAC and Controls System I would put in your house or office would cost you a mint.
Well, I'm only joking unless you want to do it.
Seriously though I commented for another reason ...
AWESOME coin!
The Clack' is definitely back!!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I food-savered (is that a word now?) a 2008 rev 2007 MS70 FS silver eagle back in the day when spotting was a huge problem. Haven’t looked at that coin since, still seems to have a good seal.
Good luck, I hope whatever you decide does the trick.
From here: https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-introduces-superior-new-holder#:~:text=The chemical formula contains PCGS,potential environmental damage to coins.
PCGS Introduces Superior New Holder To Protect Coins And Help Combat Counterfeiting
These sturdier, tamper-evident holders have no edge seam, are virtually airtight and will provide even more protection against potential environmental damage to coins.
Virtually airtight = Not airtight
A lot was mentioned above about the good idea of using silica to reduce moisture, but also as noted above, it sounded cumbersome to use effectively over time. For many years, in addition to using Intercept Shield boxes for the type of protection it offers, I also use Eva-Dry, an inexpensive product available on Amazon that is so simple to maintain its effectiveness. Just once a month or so, simply plug it into an electrical outlet to quickly dry out the silica so it then gets as fresh as new. Below is a hotlink.
Does this make sense?
https://www.amazon.com/Improved-Eva-dry-333-Renewable-Dehumidifier/dp/B000H0XFCS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3A362NGI1LW90&dchild=1&keywords=eva+dry&qid=1619665137&sprefix=Eva+dry,aps,194&sr=8-1
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I'll second the Eva Dry as posted by @winesteven - I trust it more than silica gel which requires oven re-heating. I have two in my safe and they last 2+ months before the color indicates they need to be changed.
Back when I collected red copper, I would use the Intercept Shield boxes with desiccants and would surround the boxes with copper "steel" wool (available in boating stores) in case there was anything reactive in the environment.
Never had a red coin turn RB on me. I did have a 1877 P66R IHC appear to change color on me but in retrospect, it was all paranoia.
I vacuum seal red meat all the time and it works great.
...maybe that’s not helpful for you to know.
Unfortunately, quite a few of the sellers on the PCGS site (not CU) seem to think that their copper pennies are made of gold! I don't mind paying a premium for some coins, but 60% is ridiculous even if it is graded already. Almost as bad as buying bullion coins for a 30 -40 % premium because they grade higher. Go to cash them in, in an emergency, and they'll only bring bullion price!
Been there done that, not going to do it again!
Bruce
In the winter 100% humidity is normal. We had 30 days of continuous rain this winter. We had a few years ago more than 5 weeks of rain continuous - e,g never stopping; even for a moment; for weeks.
Then the weld must not be "complete along the entire perimeter". If it was the holder would be completely airtight. Seems we have some contradictory marketing going on.
Collector, occasional seller
@Clackamas1 said:
“@spacehayduke said:
Oregon is pretty wet and humid if you live west of the Cascades, >
Best, SH”
In the winter 100% humidity is normal.
My guess is that when you combine the dry summers, relatively cool winters, and relatively clean air, Oregon is not worse than many other parts of the country. At 100% humidity, there’s a lot less moisture in the air at 40 degrees than 80 degrees. Definitely take normal precautions, but please don’t lose sleep!
In that case, the cautious approach would seem to be proceeding as though the holders are not airtight.
You can have a weld that is not completely airtight. Air molecules are quite small
Yes but if you said your store them in a vacuum everyone would be thinking about the coin spinning around in the vacuum cleaner tank.
Www.daddyhinkles.com Get the Marinade. Tenderizer is excellent too
Thank me later...
Yup I don't miss that at all, which is why I only visit the relatives around PDX in the summer..........
Best, SH
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
I have had raw red copper stored in a safe for 40 years with silicone packets and pods with no changes in color.
Just rejuvenate them every couple of years as has been mentioned. I also like to open the safe and let them breathe
a little every few years too. A full safe helps too just like a full humidor helps maintain humidity.
Old copper should be.....
Pretty coin! Love it.
Say it Bruce.....old copper should be brown!
I agree, but unfortunately, what pays and is in demand, is RED copper. Doesn't mean I don't like the looks of old brown naturally aged copper though! I also appreciate the exemplary display of a master engraver's art! Like I said, beautiful coin in all aspects.
Bruce
Some of it is still red and I would like
to keep it that way.