Is this coin over graded. 1944s ms 65 Walker.
robbylu52
Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
12 people are bidding on this internet auction coin
0
robbylu52
Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
robbylu52
Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
robbylu52
Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
robbylu52
Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
12 people are bidding on this internet auction coin
Comments
Trying to hone my grading skills. Coin looks like a ms 64 by true pcgs standards.
What makes you think it’s a 64? What does the reverse look like? Why does it matter that 12 people are bidding on it?
Strong chatter in right field. Well if 12 people are bidding seems maybe they think otherwise
The photos are overexposed and useless for grading purposes. Overexposed photos will hide small defects.
What do you mean, I have bought their coins before and they seem fairly accurate. This coin has a bad hit in the field so I don’t know what could be hidden, but 12 people are voting with their money so maybe I am off, I would never buy this coin personally
First, I think you mean it has 12 bids. If so, that can be quite a bit different than 12 bidders.
Second, as @291fifth stated, those are REALLY difficult pictures to grade from.
Third, I can see enough to believe that the "chatter" you proclaim appears to be a series of light luster grazes, and I don't think those, by themselves, preclude a MS65 grade ... and even though those are terrible pictures to grade from, I think that could be a solid 65. Nice strike (for a 44-S), good hand, clean leg and chest, clean eagles breast, although a couple wing tip hits.
If you're trying to learn to grade, study MUCH clearer and less exposed pictures, and coins in hand as much as possible as luster can be difficult to assess otherwise.
If you're looking for a 44-s and don't like the marks on that one, just pass it by ... don't worry, there are plenty of them out there.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I need my fellow collectors advice for my grading skills. Please let me know your thoughts
There’s a chance it could be a luster graze and be less offensive in hand. With that said there is no reason to take a chance on such a common date. In a post COVID world, it is important that a coin be photogenic so it can sell online. This one is not. Hard pass for me...
Sorry meant 12 bids.
No
I like it at 65!
Looks 65 to me.
Impossible to tell
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Depending upon factors such as the minimum opening bid and how it relates to the approximate value of the coin, the number of bidders (or bids) might be meaningless. For example, if a $300 coin opens at 99c, there could be dozens of bids. But if the same coin has a starting bid of $295, there might only be a couple or (edited for typo) none at all. Neither situation necessarily speaks to the quality of the coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
True. And there is a sight unseen price for this coin, so for all we know the current puts is $20 after 12 bids.
Apparently we are now testing the "legitimacy" of PCGS based on a photo.
+1
Based on poor photo's, I will not argue with the grade.... However, I would not buy this coin from an ebay auction... perhaps at a coin show where I could examine it in hand. Cheers, RickO
It looks to have a fairly good strike for a 44-S but it is hard to see.
jom
Not on those photos, you're not.
CoinFacts picture library by grade could be helpful to you.
The real question in your mind, of course, is would a dealer at a show snap this coin up? Oops, not a key date, guess not
The coin is well struck for a 44-S, but based on the photo, I don't like the amount of chatter (for the grade) in the vulnerable right obverse field. The strong strike and luster likely bumped it to just-made-it MS65.
Agreed.
There are lots of these around, I would wait for a better example to show up. Remember that grading is just an opinion, even PCGS. Some opinions matter more then others, In the end, your opinion is the only one that matters when purchasing coins, or anything else for that matter.
What is the term for one step short of a troll?
Smitten with DBLCs.
Minus the chatter, wouldn't it then be an MS66 or 67? Looks properly graded to me.
peacockcoins
Though it may indeed be a 65 based on intervening factors of strike, luster and volume and depth of surface markings, I personally find the surface anomalies visualized above the In God We Trust- to be of such a distraction, that I would pass on this coin.
Disclaimer: it is entirely possible that these distractions aren’t nearly as evident in hand, or with different lighting.
Just for comparison- here’s a photo of my PCGS 65
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Roll?
Toll?
If you take out eBay, CAC, and grade inflation threads, that’s 90% of our posting volume.
With the other 10%, "error coins".
We need Roger and Skip back.
One point that was reinforced when I was a grader and has remained with me ever since, is that just because (for whatever reason) you don’t like a particular coin, doesn’t mean it’s over-graded. And just because you like it, doesn’t mean it’s not over-graded.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Having recently started dipping my toes into the digital Walker world (buying online and then inspecting once they arrive)...there is nothing from those pictures that leads me to believe it’s over graded. Beyond that, I would trust the professional grader who had it on hand in appropriate coin viewing light more than my interpretation of a picture posted online. In hand, I can make my own judgements, but I don’t SEE anything to tell me the grader was wrong.
Can you make this happen @HeatherBoyd? Pretty please...
I would consider it on the lower end of the grade, in hand I think the graze in the right field is not as egregious as it appears in this photo. The luster seems very intense and I have noticed that is a very desirable quality to the PCGS graders.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Big pass for me with the major chatter, in the right facing field, and the very average strike.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set:
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Accurately graded; and considering the large spread between MS64 and MS65 on this coin, it is unfair to render any judgment out of hand. It used to be a $400 coin and has been dropping for many years now into the $200s. I once sent one of these PCGS certified 44-s Walkers to a major Coin World buyer and though it was certified properly as MS65, he said he would only pay 64 money! That's the game; question accurate grading and then try to strongarm the owner into parting with their collectibles.
With its super luster it should do well in auction. Chatter marks obv keep it from a higher grade. Many don’t like the ugly tarnish on other coins and will bid this piece up. MS70 is perfect.
Do you know Mexico 1940’s 50 centavos in slabbed 65 with their double digit low pops much scarcer than USA WLH?
Ask the seller if it’s PQ.
What does the large spread between MS64 and MS65 or price history have to do with opinions regarding the accuracy of the grade?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Grading based only on photos especially over-exposed or even under-exposed photos is not an optimal way (actually a terrible way) to discern the grade of a coin. No substitute for in-person grading of a coin.
That being said, my reaction based on looking at photos only is that it is either slightly overgraded and should be a 64+ or accurately graded at 65 but either way, too low end 65 (meaning 65.0 or 65.1) to garner a CAC sticker. Cannot tell how significant the deep chatter is in the dreaded open right field. Cannot tell if there are significant hits on the outstretched arm of Liberty as well. Otherwise the coin seems nicely struck.
This is my own ms 65 Walker
Very small chatter in right field, super luster great strike only detraction is a small hit on liberty arm otherwise think 66
Agreed, that is a nice 65.
Not my series, in the first image to much happening in the fields for me.
Second coin much stronger.
Do you own the Coin World book Making the Grade? A great resource IMHO.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Agreed.
With no ability to view coins in person during the pandemic....the opinion of CAC becomes more critical.
CAC stickering allows you to feel comfortable buying a coin sight unseen.
My feelings exactly.
Louis Armstrong
Newer photos show the coin in a much more favorable light.
Very nice!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I sense that the standards have evolved in the past few months...fewer bannings and more closed threads as necessary. I sure wish we could run some of those old poofed threads (and posters) through the current standards.
As for the coin, the PCGS label gives the grade. Eye appeal is up to the potential buyer. Splitting hairs is tough to do via photos.
As one of the sharpest graders in the hobby, with a lot of legal experience as well, Mr. Feld, far be it for me, more a hobbyist than a numismatist, to question your excellent judgment. 20 some odd years ago I read Scott Travers book "How to Make Money in Coins Right Now", and one of his recommendations was the 1944-s 50c Walker, trying for an upgrade from MS64 to MS65. A big jump in price to be sure. So the point I was making would reference the upgrade experts. At this point Greysheet (old issue) has the 44-s at $75 to $195 in MS65. The MS65 before was around twice that. I have no doubt that PCGS follows the ANA grading standards properly. NGC, Anacs and ICG also try to follow the grading standards. https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade65