@daltex said:
Many years ago I attempted to buy a couple of SEGS coins on eBay. Instead I got SGS coins. Big difference.
Did they have pics of the slab?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@koynekwest said:
The problem is that once a grading company gets a bad reputation it's very difficult to restore any confidence in it. I'd love to see SEGS recover.
Yes, you would be much better off starting with a new name. Otherwise, there is too much crap out there with your name on it.
@koynekwest said:
The problem is that once a grading company gets a bad reputation it's very difficult to restore any confidence in it. I'd love to see SEGS recover.
Yes, you would be much better off starting with a new name. Otherwise, there is too much crap out there with your name on it.
Also, they would need a few big names in the coin industry involved as finalizers and consultants. Even then it would take some time for them to gain credibility among dealers and collectors.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Maybe they could just do as stickering service of varieties. That would be a business model that wouldn’t compete with anyone else and be a nice value add.
@TurtleCat said:
Maybe they could just do as stickering service of varieties. That would be a business model that wouldn’t compete with anyone else and be a nice value add.
@braddick said:
I recall some interesting insert descriptions SEGS would use. Remember the "Damaged by UPS" insert? SEGS also tried to form a market for the "So-Called Zephre Dies" 1921 Morgans (spelling).
The one and only grader at SEGS (back in the day) was a talented fellow though, from what I recall.
"Zerbe"
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@al410 said:
Just seemed odd that they were around awhile yet never see any for sale with Morgans in them.
There are 7 or 8 Morgans/Peace Dollars on EBAY right now and a ton of just SEGS various coins. All over priced. Just search SEGS coins on EBAY and you will find all you want.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@TurtleCat said:
Maybe they could just do as stickering service of varieties. That would be a business model that wouldn’t compete with anyone else and be a nice value add.
Bot only 1 many years ago but think it was pretty accurately graded, and a little semi PL to boot. I remember I almost busted my thumb trying to break out the coin. My method was to use a hammer and a small Craftsman 3/32" flat head screwdriver to break slabs. I cracked close to 100 slabs. I could break an NGC slab in 2 hits, the white ANACS maybe 3 hits being smaller. PCGS were tougher to crack open, esp the Rattlers. This one I almost gave up and you can see the gouges from the screwdriver. After this experience didn't want to ever get a SEGs slab again. I did like the mintage displayed but the inserts were too big for my album display.
I'm sure it's probably a work in progress. A friend of mine was an investor in SEGS and he told me they have all the DATA. I guess it's a matter of getting it all uploaded. I have 1 SEGS graded Barber Half. Sometime today if I have time I will try to see if it works on the coin I have.
@amwldcoin said:
The knew owner is making in roads with ebay. The only reason they couldn't qualify before was not having an online cert verification. From what I have been told this has been resolved. Time will tell!
Interesting, earlier today when I was on the SEGS site I tried to verify one of my coins which failed. Maybe that feature only works with the newer generation slabs.
@koynekwest said:
The problem is that once a grading company gets a bad reputation it's very difficult to restore any confidence in it. I'd love to see SEGS recover.
Yes, you would be much better off starting with a new name. Otherwise, there is too much crap out there with your name on it.
The best way I've found to crack a SEGS holder without a band saw is to stand it on it's corner and give it a good whack. Usually takes a few licks and watch your fingers!
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Bot only 1 many years ago but think it was pretty accurately graded, and a little semi PL to boot. I remember I almost busted my thumb trying to break out the coin. My method was to use a hammer and a small Craftsman 3/32" flat head screwdriver to break slabs. I cracked close to 100 slabs. I could break an NGC slab in 2 hits, the white ANACS maybe 3 hits being smaller. PCGS were tougher to crack open, esp the Rattlers. This one I almost gave up and you can see the gouges from the screwdriver. After this experience didn't want to ever get a SEGs slab again. I did like the mintage displayed but the inserts were too big for my album display.
In my earlier days of cherrypicking Buffalo nickels, I used SEGS because they atttributed varieties that other graders did not recognize at the time. Have since crossed over a few at PCGS (broke them out first). Some upgraded or remained the same, one that I recall went down significantly. Still have a couple because they fit in my PCGS box and I saw no need to cross over. As far as cracking them out, I found it relatively easy, thanks to a post I saw here years ago. Place the holder on edge of a solid surface, tap solidly with hammer on the opposing edge, rotate and repeat 3 more times. It should break open cleanly along the seam.
Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
I think they were very accurate in the early days of SEGS. But I quit grading with them maybe 5 years after they started grading, so anything after that I wouldn't know. I do know that I cherried a 1916 proof Buff 5c in an MS65 SEGS slab for $100 back in 2006. I still have that coin-
SEGS is/was actually several different entities over the years and although things were the same - owner, phone#, website, abbreviation, etc. they refused to stand behind the guarantees of "the prior ownership".
Not one I really had any interest in, but I think it was Sovereign Entities Grading Service, Inc., then SEGS, Inc. then SEGS, LLC. But I might have that inverted.
Saw quite a few SEGS slabs at shows in the PNW before I retired.... Never did buy one though. No other reason than there were not coins I was seeking at the time in SEGS slabs....If there were one, and I liked it, I surely would have purchased it - it is always the coin that I focus on. Cheers, RickO
Corey Bower and his wife owns/runs what some people say is a shady auction site that sells a lot of segs graded coins. Wonder if they are grading the coins they are auctioning 🤔
Seems shady. Appears even more so when you read into Corey Bower and his wife's criminal history involving mortgage fraud under a company called greatstone.
@Anonymous1 ---How is the new SEGS grading? Can you show us any examples where their grades are wrong? Are you an alt with an ax to grind?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said: @Anonymous1 ---How is the new SEGS grading? Can you show us any examples where their grades are wrong? Are you an alt with an ax to grind?
If you will go through each of the links, the story is laid out. Federally convicted and sent to prison for millions in mortgage fraud. Not someone I would trust to do the right thing. Axe to grind or a heads up for the uninformed? I don’t care, good information to know.
I love SEGS, and they excelled in grading Jefferson nickels. Older SEGS holders were conservative in grading and I have upgraded going to both PCGS and NGC. I consistently find nothing wrong with their grading. I read that at one time, their three graders had well over 100 years total experience. Unlike PCGS and NGC, I've never seen a major mistake on a SEGS holder. They're mainly knocked by the ignorant and those who have never seen any. Part of any problems there may be with reputation is that people mix up the worthless Star Grading, SGS, with SEGS.
@koynekwest said:
I think they were very accurate in the early days of SEGS. But I quit grading with them maybe 5 years after they started grading, so anything after that I wouldn't know. I do know that I cherried a 1916 proof Buff 5c in an MS65 SEGS slab for $100 back in 2006. I still have that coin-
Remember the Battle Tucker had with the big 3 in Detroit? That was one of the issues. The new owner is trying to get ebay to accept SEGS. They meet all the requirements and are still getting a no.
Many Morgan collectors are aware that many examples of various 'missing' letters in God We Trust, caused by in-fill in the reverse die of accumulated grease/dirt/crud, occur with 1921 coins in varying degrees of 'missing'. When the in-fill is complete, the coins that result are very cool. But how long does the in-fill stay before a press operator noticed and cleaned it out, or the in-fill fell out on its own? No one knows of course.
Here's a spectacular example of what happened when the in-fill came out on its own and made its way down to the lower part of the coin, striking at least one subsequent coin with an 'extra' letter:
Many Morgan collectors are aware that several examples of various 'missing' letters in God We Trust, caused by in-fill in the reverse die made up of accumulated grease/dirt/crud, exist in varying degrees of 'missing'. When the in-fill is complete, the coins that result are really cool. But how long does the in-fill stay there before a press operator noticed and cleaned it out, or the in-fill fell out on its own? No one knows of course.
But here's a spectacular example of what happened when the in-fill came out on its own and made its way down to the lower part of the die, striking at least one subsequent coin with an 'extra' letter:
My sole SEGS coin is a 1936-D Mercury dime graded MS-65 with FSB and did not think it was worth getting reholdered, so it will stay as a variety of TPG plastic holder in my collection.
@gremlin13 said:
I love SEGS, and they excelled in grading Jefferson nickels. Older SEGS holders were conservative in grading and I have upgraded going to both PCGS and NGC. I consistently find nothing wrong with their grading. I read that at one time, their three graders had well over 100 years total experience. Unlike PCGS and NGC, I've never seen a major mistake on a SEGS holder. They're mainly knocked by the ignorant and those who have never seen any. Part of any problems there may be with reputation is that people mix up the worthless Star Grading, SGS, with SEGS.
If many coins upgrade with NGC and PCGS and you agree with the newer grades (with PCGS and NGC) then SEGS is not being consistent. Undergrading and overgrading fall under the same definition of inconsistency.
Agree that they do get listed but if it is spotted or reported, it will be removed.
eBay can’t really remove a listing for policy violation until it is listed.
There will always be some that are missed but doesn’t mean they still aren’t against eBay policy.
If you are speeding and don’t get caught, doesn’t mean that you are not still breaking the law.
Tim- that policy is a bit of a fossil. It was imposed with lots of fanfare and had some requirements (a certain # of coins graded, the ability to verify certification, &c.) to be approved.
After the initial wave, there were a couple of organizations that tried to get approved, but there didn't seem to have been any motion. And nothing has changed since then, despite a bunch of changes in the industry.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I have a question for anyone who knows about segs holders. for decades I have owned a Indian cent in a segs holder that has a pinkish red colored insert. Did they use that color for copper coins or because it supposed to be a details coin. holder says MS 64 only. any info appreciated.
Comments
Many years ago I attempted to buy a couple of SEGS coins on eBay. Instead I got SGS coins. Big difference.
Did they have pics of the slab?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, you would be much better off starting with a new name. Otherwise, there is too much crap out there with your name on it.
Also, they would need a few big names in the coin industry involved as finalizers and consultants. Even then it would take some time for them to gain credibility among dealers and collectors.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Maybe they could just do as stickering service of varieties. That would be a business model that wouldn’t compete with anyone else and be a nice value add.
Such a variety stickering service is already available:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1038240/a-couple-varieties-attributed-by-messydesk
http://varslab.com/vamseal.html
"Zerbe"
There are 7 or 8 Morgans/Peace Dollars on EBAY right now and a ton of just SEGS various coins. All over priced. Just search SEGS coins on EBAY and you will find all you want.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Had no idea that was out there. Thanks for the pointer!
Bot only 1 many years ago but think it was pretty accurately graded, and a little semi PL to boot. I remember I almost busted my thumb trying to break out the coin. My method was to use a hammer and a small Craftsman 3/32" flat head screwdriver to break slabs. I cracked close to 100 slabs. I could break an NGC slab in 2 hits, the white ANACS maybe 3 hits being smaller. PCGS were tougher to crack open, esp the Rattlers. This one I almost gave up and you can see the gouges from the screwdriver. After this experience didn't want to ever get a SEGs slab again. I did like the mintage displayed but the inserts were too big for my album display.
That 90-S looks properly graded (I know, fuzzy obv photo and no rev. photo...)
peacockcoins
I'm sure it's probably a work in progress. A friend of mine was an investor in SEGS and he told me they have all the DATA. I guess it's a matter of getting it all uploaded. I have 1 SEGS graded Barber Half. Sometime today if I have time I will try to see if it works on the coin I have.
I think the biggest asset with SEGS is the holder itself.
The best way I've found to crack a SEGS holder without a band saw is to stand it on it's corner and give it a good whack. Usually takes a few licks and watch your fingers!
Anacs, ICG, PCGS, NGC are the TPG recognized by eBay.
In my earlier days of cherrypicking Buffalo nickels, I used SEGS because they atttributed varieties that other graders did not recognize at the time. Have since crossed over a few at PCGS (broke them out first). Some upgraded or remained the same, one that I recall went down significantly. Still have a couple because they fit in my PCGS box and I saw no need to cross over. As far as cracking them out, I found it relatively easy, thanks to a post I saw here years ago. Place the holder on edge of a solid surface, tap solidly with hammer on the opposing edge, rotate and repeat 3 more times. It should break open cleanly along the seam.
I agree, looks as good in hand. Reverse is very clean, hit on one leg and some minor chatter.
I think they were very accurate in the early days of SEGS. But I quit grading with them maybe 5 years after they started grading, so anything after that I wouldn't know. I do know that I cherried a 1916 proof Buff 5c in an MS65 SEGS slab for $100 back in 2006. I still have that coin-

SEGS is/was actually several different entities over the years and although things were the same - owner, phone#, website, abbreviation, etc. they refused to stand behind the guarantees of "the prior ownership".
Not one I really had any interest in, but I think it was Sovereign Entities Grading Service, Inc., then SEGS, Inc. then SEGS, LLC. But I might have that inverted.
You can have a fun half-hour with The Wayback Machine, https://web.archive.org/web/20000501000000*/segsgrading.com
Here is one of the transitions:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071219121923/http://www.segsgrading.com:80/
https://web.archive.org/web/20080118223044/http://www.segsgrading.com:80/
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
It was so many years ago I don't remember. Coins were easily worth face.
Saw quite a few SEGS slabs at shows in the PNW before I retired.... Never did buy one though. No other reason than there were not coins I was seeking at the time in SEGS slabs....If there were one, and I liked it, I surely would have purchased it - it is always the coin that I focus on. Cheers, RickO
there is sure is a lot of them come and gone in time
It is currently owned by Corey Bower and believe it is in his sons name
https://www.bbb.org/us/nj/cherry-hill/profile/coin-dealers/segs-coin-grading-0221-90208466
Corey Bower and his wife owns/runs what some people say is a shady auction site that sells a lot of segs graded coins. Wonder if they are grading the coins they are auctioning 🤔
https://keydatecoins.hibid.com/
https://www.bbb.org/us/nj/cherry-hill/profile/coin-dealers/key-date-coins-inc-0221-90197064
Seems shady. Appears even more so when you read into Corey Bower and his wife's criminal history involving mortgage fraud under a company called greatstone.
https://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/10/27/Couple-handed-jail-time-for-mortgage-fraud/59951256660440/
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2004/04/09/greatstone-ex-officer-takes-plea-deal/
I would frankly stear clear of any of this. Sad to because it appears the previous owner larry briggs was very good at attribution of varieties
@Anonymous1 ---How is the new SEGS grading? Can you show us any examples where their grades are wrong? Are you an alt with an ax to grind?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you will go through each of the links, the story is laid out. Federally convicted and sent to prison for millions in mortgage fraud. Not someone I would trust to do the right thing. Axe to grind or a heads up for the uninformed? I don’t care, good information to know.
They used to be a decent company
BHNC #203
It would be better to bring a SEGS holder to a gun fight than a knife...
As their slabs if tossed are deadly!
I love SEGS, and they excelled in grading Jefferson nickels. Older SEGS holders were conservative in grading and I have upgraded going to both PCGS and NGC. I consistently find nothing wrong with their grading. I read that at one time, their three graders had well over 100 years total experience. Unlike PCGS and NGC, I've never seen a major mistake on a SEGS holder. They're mainly knocked by the ignorant and those who have never seen any. Part of any problems there may be with reputation is that people mix up the worthless Star Grading, SGS, with SEGS.
Amazing proof buffalo nickel!
New event at the next coin show - SLAB FIGHT!
Remember the Battle Tucker had with the big 3 in Detroit? That was one of the issues. The new owner is trying to get ebay to accept SEGS. They meet all the requirements and are still getting a no.
Many Morgan collectors are aware that many examples of various 'missing' letters in God We Trust, caused by in-fill in the reverse die of accumulated grease/dirt/crud, occur with 1921 coins in varying degrees of 'missing'. When the in-fill is complete, the coins that result are very cool. But how long does the in-fill stay before a press operator noticed and cleaned it out, or the in-fill fell out on its own? No one knows of course.
Here's a spectacular example of what happened when the in-fill came out on its own and made its way down to the lower part of the coin, striking at least one subsequent coin with an 'extra' letter:
Many Morgan collectors are aware that several examples of various 'missing' letters in God We Trust, caused by in-fill in the reverse die made up of accumulated grease/dirt/crud, exist in varying degrees of 'missing'. When the in-fill is complete, the coins that result are really cool. But how long does the in-fill stay there before a press operator noticed and cleaned it out, or the in-fill fell out on its own? No one knows of course.
But here's a spectacular example of what happened when the in-fill came out on its own and made its way down to the lower part of the die, striking at least one subsequent coin with an 'extra' letter:
My sole SEGS coin is a 1936-D Mercury dime graded MS-65 with FSB and did not think it was worth getting reholdered, so it will stay as a variety of TPG plastic holder in my collection.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
If many coins upgrade with NGC and PCGS and you agree with the newer grades (with PCGS and NGC) then SEGS is not being consistent. Undergrading and overgrading fall under the same definition of inconsistency.
peacockcoins
SEGS
My first online coin purchase.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I only have one SEGS coin. I bought it on the BST last year.
It's been a year. Any new information, updates, changes, opinions or concerns about the SEGS Grading Co?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
This auction company, KDC, seems to have a connection with SEGS. They always have a lot of SEGS holders.
https://www.proxibid.com/Key-Date-Coins/Key-Date-Coins-Signature-Rare-Coin-Auction-21-pt-2/event-catalog/242033
(Edit) And they are going for way more than $1 - $5 https://www.proxibid.com/Auction-Highlight-1892-s-Morgan-Dollar-1-Graded-au58-By-SEGS-fc/lotInformation/76612512
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
Anyone associated with SEGS on the forum here?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I believe this is them - I'm too cheap to pay for records copies.
The NJ address is a UPS store, 1409 NJ-70 #168, Cherry Hill, NJ 08034
The Tennesee registration of the Georgia company is inactive:
As is the Georgia listing:
I don't think anything has changed since the November 2021 comments up thread.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I think you're right.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The association makes sense since KDC is located in NJ, just 9 miles from that address.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
They still are not recognized by eBay.
You can post one of their holders as long as you black out the grade.
Really?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Agree that they do get listed but if it is spotted or reported, it will be removed.
eBay can’t really remove a listing for policy violation until it is listed.
There will always be some that are missed but doesn’t mean they still aren’t against eBay policy.
If you are speeding and don’t get caught, doesn’t mean that you are not still breaking the law.
Tim
Tim- that policy is a bit of a fossil. It was imposed with lots of fanfare and had some requirements (a certain # of coins graded, the ability to verify certification, &c.) to be approved.
After the initial wave, there were a couple of organizations that tried to get approved, but there didn't seem to have been any motion. And nothing has changed since then, despite a bunch of changes in the industry.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I have a question for anyone who knows about segs holders. for decades I have owned a Indian cent in a segs holder that has a pinkish red colored insert. Did they use that color for copper coins or because it supposed to be a details coin. holder says MS 64 only. any info appreciated.