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Never knew there were Aluminum quarter eagles in the 1860s
markelman1125
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This is a cool coin I found on eBay. It’s a pattern coin but why aluminum? I think it’s because back then aluminum was a rare
valuable metal, tell me what you think
8
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Good deal too
It was common practice to make Proof Coins from various metals. Copper was another often used. These were typically trial pieces and made in very limited, usually single digit, quantities.
One can conjecture that using various metals provided valuable information of an experimental nature to the engravers and those preparing to mint the intended coins in their final metal (silver or gold) as to strike and other aspects. One can also conjecture that using metals other than gold or silver lessened the concern about keeping track of and accounting for the silver and gold on deposit with the Mint that had to be meticulously accounted for by those working at the Mint.
Not die trial pieces. Aluminum was extremely expensive in 1868 - these were in presentation sets for connected individuals or dignitaries
Yes, in 1868, aluminum was new, so they tried it out.
Entire 1868 proof sets were made in aluminum for sale to collectors.
https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/18casaltrial.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aluminium
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006660/a-little-more-information-about-aluminum-proof-sets-1868-cost-of-aluminum-added-to-last
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/874022/any-idea-what-that-1868-proof-set-in-aluminum-will-go-for
Here, from a Heritage auction description is an explanation as to the use of aluminum as an experimental venture at least with regard to putting together complete sets. it would be interesting to know one way or the other whether the subject aluminum coin was in fact in such a set as opposed to having been a trial piece. Given the year of 1868 it could very well have so been. That said, if the description below is accurate, it would seem the sets have remained intact.
"The experimental 1868 aluminum proof sets were produced at the request of Mint Director Henry Linderman, ostensibly for presentation to the Bank of England and other European entities, to demonstrate the advantages of aluminum as a coinage metal. However, it now seems more likely that the sets were actually intended as numismatic delicacies for sale or presentation to favored collectors and influential parties in this country. Four cased sets were officially requested, and we can trace the history of four sets in numismatic holdings in the United States, including one set in the possession of Hugh McCulloch, Secretary of the Treasury in 1868, and another in the collection of Mint Director Linderman himself. Officials at the Bank of England inform us that there is no record of a set being sent to their collection in the 19th century, and it seems unlikely that any sets were sent to other European destinations.
The 1868 aluminum proof sets have a fascinating but checkered history. In a scenario reminiscent of the curse of the legendary Hope Diamond, grave misfortune befell many of the owners of these coins, including bankruptcy, public disgrace, and early death. At one point in 1887, the U.S. government declared the coins illegal to own, and confiscated and destroyed one of the sets. Thankfully, the government has softened its position on pattern ownership in recent times, and the sets now sell readily, with no official interference. A roster of known 1868 aluminum proof sets is included below.
The set offered here is probably the finest known, overall. With one of the original four sets destroyed, and another impounded in the Eric Newman Foundation, only two sets are available to collectors today. The majority of the coins in this set are in higher grades than the corresponding coins in the other set, which Heritage handled in January 2007. This incredible proof set, with a combination of extreme rarity, breathtaking eye appeal, and highest available technical grade, should find a home in the finest pattern collection or Registry Set."
https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1868-complete-16-piece-aluminum-pattern-proof-set-cent-through-double-eagle-pr63-pr67-cameo-ngc-r8-as-a-set-total-16-coins-/a/1181-6006.s
And as TDN astutely noted, there was a time when Aluminum was actually considered valuable. While it was available since the early 1800s (beginning in 1820) it wasn't until after the mid 1800s that it lost its lusture and subsequently plummeted in value due to advances in how to extract this otherwise common element.
Anyone interested in the history of this metal here is a whimsical piece:
slate.com/articles/health_and_science/elements/features/2010/blogging_the_periodic_table/aluminum_it_used_to_be_more_precious_than_gold.html
Hmmmm, from what I have been told and read many times here is that "Good Deal" and that seller do not go together!
I think the price is about 18k too high
These are what's known as "pieces de caprice" or "fantasy coins".
They were for sale to well heeled collectors. It would be pretty cool if the US Mint still did this.
https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j654p727.html
This from the above linked article in my previous post:
"Aluminum is the most common metal in the earth's crust, almost twice as abundant as iron. And one common class of aluminum minerals, collectively called alum, has been in use since at least Greek and Roman times. (Alum, an astringent, is also the powder cartoon characters like Sylvester the cat sometimes swallow that makes their mouths pucker.) But there's no easy way to extract aluminum (unlike iron) from ores, no matter how much you heat them. No one succeeded in isolating aluminum until a German chemist extracted a few flakes in the 1820s."
Don’t quote me, but I think there’s a couple flying eagle cents also.
They really need to do this again!
as TDN stated, at the time this was issued Aluminum was quite expensive. many would be surprised to know that until the 1890's Aluminum was more expensive than Gold. the reason is that in order to process Bauxite, the main source of Aluminum, huge amounts of electricity are required for electrolysis. in 1868 that wasn't really feasible.
Your ignorance is showing. Like all dealers you may agree or disagree with some prices but I doubt one can stay in business as long as Julian without selling a lot of coins. Julian has forgotten more than most collectors will ever know
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Read all about it, here's a great book on pattern coins. PR-65 Cameo sold at Heritage in November for $10,800 with CAC sticker. If you want to make an offer... take your time thinking about it, it'll be there a while.
Pricey!
That timeline is not quite right. In 1868, aluminum was worth more like silver, pound for pound, although it was sill somewhat exotic. But 15 years earlier, aluminum was extremely valuable.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
This is the first US coin struck in aluminum. It was struck one year after the development of a new process for the industrial production of aluminum. Even then, aluminum was quite expensive, but at that point it had become conceivable that the metal might become useful for coinage. The coin is unique.
Here's an 1867 aluminum pattern five cent piece, which was proposed to replace the recently introduced Shield Nickel. At the time, the coin would have contained five cents worth of aluminum, so it was more "honest money" than the Shield Nickel. No surprise that that proposal was shot down! LOL
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I would love to own an aluminum pattern
To put the importance of these coins in perspective, there are only two other aluminum patterns that were struck for official purposes. In 1863, the Postage Currency Dimes, and in 1942, the Lincoln Cent. The hundreds of other aluminum pattern issues listed in Judd were struck for the sole purpose of satisfying collector demand.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I absolutely love aluminum coins. This has been a fun thread. Wish we had them in this country. (Circulating, I mean).
I'd love to see them return to the large dollar size but in aluminum or some sort of aluminum mix with another metal to add weight, but not as heavy as the old style.
They look great fresh, they look great circulated, and unlike nickel they aren't toxic I don't believe. They have literally no drawbacks in my opinion.
Interesting view. I believe the Japanese one yen coin is aluminum.
I believe Aluminum is more reactive than the copper-nickel alloy in our 5c coins.
In climbing we use aluminum carabiners, and if you handle them a lot over several days,
your hands become black, because the aluminum oxide gets onto your hands.
(It also gets on your rope, and then on your hands when you handle the rope).
So that could be a drawback for people who handle a large volume of coins, unless they wear gloves.
The solution in climbing is to anodize them; plus that gets you many colors.
It does not look so great when the anodizing starts wearing off, though.
In some ways, that is a marketing strategy, so that people buy new ones.
And of course the retooling cost for vending machines would make it costly to switch to aluminum.
Interesting history.... Not sure why aluminum did not become a coinage metal as extraction became feasible. The light weight may have been a factor considered. I like that Lincoln cent... it was a very good year.
Cheers, RickO
It’s so lite, I always thought lite coins don’t feel like money when traveling overseas.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Cool coin - way overpriced though!
The believed to be aluminum one yen coin is pictured on the far right.
(The pictured obsolete 100 yen bill has not been in circulation for decades. In Japan there is no longer any paper money for 500 Yen, which is equivalent to our 5 dollar bill, and lower.)
This Simpson piece is on the market for $19,500 now.... interesting to see many of the Simpson Aluminum pieces being picked up by dealers and reposted for 100- 200% more. I am sure if a dealers did not have a client waiting for a piece they could move them out quickly with a reasonable profit in short order but not sure when they relist them at such a high value price how long it will take to get their cash back to reinvest.
However, PCGS auction records show only 7 pieces in the last 25 years ... so if you are interested it may be a while before one will be on the auction block again.
R.7 Patterns are very hard to price as I am sure if one other bidder wanted to bid on this Simpson J-654 - it would have hammered at a much higher level.
Agreed, very difficult coin to find but the market on pattern pieces is very small. I picked up the book many years ago due to an interest in patterns but as you say, they are very hard to price. I have yet to pick up one piece.
So I guess you are figuring the CAC piece with Simpson provenance somewhere between $10,800 and $19,500. $28,600 coin is insanely priced, especially without CAC and provenance attached.
Interesting comment on the only 2 being struck for official reasons. How would you classify J-656 - J 659 series of dual currency (5 Dollar/ 25 Franc ) pieces. J-659 being the aluminum metal strike. Were these struck to address the interest to establish an international gold coinage?
My photo of J-659 PCGS PR63
re reading your comment I think I understand it now ... the postage 10 Cent piece and 1Cent would have been the actual monetary weight in Aluminum for the coins .. so a true AL piece for circulation. The J-659 I noted above was just a Gold pattern struck in Aluminum - but not for just collectors but a pattern concept.
Was this meant to be international coinage ?
Yes, and the coin would have been gold.
As for the reason why it was struck in aluminum, this one's a borderline call. On the one hand, I would normally only think of it as "the real deal" if struck in gold. On the other hand, this one's not known to exixt in actual gold, so it's quite conceivable that the aluminum pieces were struck to demonstrate the concept to officials, and not just made for collectors. But on the other other hand, if the goal was to save some money by not striking the patterns in gold, a gilt copper piece would probably have been the better option. So I'm leaning towards "made for collectors".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
per Andrew Pollock UNITED STATES PATTERNS AND RELATED ISSUES 1992 Pg 172 ...
"... In June 1867 an international monetary convention was held in Paris to consider the adoption of an international gold coinage. The different nations agreed that the international unit should be based on the French franc. A coinage bill was introduced in Congress by Senator Sherman calling for the creation of United States five-dollar coin that could be used in International commerce. The proposal specified that the piece should weigh 124-9/20 grains, rather than the statutory one hundred twenty nine grains, thus making the coin precisely equal in value to a proposed French 25-franc piece....".
Andy ... Thanks for your thoughts
WOW
I don't know about the market prices, but the Hall process for making the metal via electrolysis, was not discovered until 1886. That was what made aluminum metal possible for the mass market.
What about the 1974 Lincoln cents?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
According to Wikipedia, during the time the Mint was considering changing the cent composition to aluminum, there was some concern that aluminum coins swallowed by children might be difficult to detect using x-rays.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I don't consider the 1974 a pattern. They were struck in large quantities and were intended to be released into circulation, but the plan (and most of the coins) were scrapped.
https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/p2084.html
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
According to this article, aluminum was down to $17 a pound by 1859, about the same as silver. Not cheap enough for beer cans, but cheap enough for coinage.
https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/aluminum-common-metal-uncommon-past
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Excuse the vague answer, but I am still researching various related issues. There are Mint documents which establish that, in 1856, 1863, 1864 (bronze-aluminum alloy), 1867 and 1896, aluminum was discussed regarding its possible use In our coinage. I am still trying to determine whether there were any serious discussions when suggested in 1868.
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
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