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PCGS or NGC. What would you do ? Update

JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 26, 2021 10:08AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Since I bought this I planned to send to NGC. Unfortunately PCGS decides not to grade calls it genuine planchet flaw. This lumps it in the same category as cleaned, bent, holed, whizzed, etc. Any miserable thing a human felt necessary to do (or does it?) This coin is 100% original as stuck. A small story in coinnews.net reports this collection was put together first half of 1900’s and first time to market, super “fresh” (that’s me not coin news) NGC will grade this and call a mint error planchet flaw. I think much more accurate description. PCGS calls AU detail strong possibility it never saw circulation. Would you leave it or send to NGC? Same coin different perception.

This is more like it. Deserves a grade.


Comments

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,235 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am not an expert in connection with the characteristics of this coin... or how it compares with other examples. It does look original and quite attractive for what it is. I would not be happy with a no grade and having a coin such as this in holder only to highlight something obvious instead an opinion that that is more representative of the coin.

    I would likely do alittle research to develop a better understanding of what the surviving population looks like. If this one is better that most...and I suspect that is a reasonable possibility... I would sent it to NGC. At a minimum, a coin like this deserves a grade and there can be a notation as to the planchet flaw

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021 9:54AM

    Would that straight grade as a mint error at PCGS?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A genuine example with a planchet flaw does not get lumped together with "cleaned, bent, holed, whizzed, etc." pieces. Coins with such problems seek their own price level based on the particular issue and the particular coin.

    You said "PCGS calls AU detail..." and "NGC will grade this and call a mint error planchet flaw". Unless NGC would label it "Unc. details" rather than "AU details", I'd leave it as is.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021 9:58AM

    @MFeld said:
    A genuine example with a planchet flaw does not get lumped together with "cleaned, bent, holed, whizzed, etc." pieces. Coins with such problems seek their own price level based on the particular issue and the particular coin.

    You said "PCGS calls AU detail..." and "NGC will grade this and call a mint error planchet flaw". Unless NGC would label it "Unc. details" rather than "AU details", I'd leave it as is.

    NGC would grade it. Best guess AU58-MS62. Removes the negative connotation of details on the slab.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems pretty simple, if you do not like the way the current TPG graded it then resubmit to the competition.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • csdotcsdot Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:

    @MFeld said:
    A genuine example with a planchet flaw does not get lumped together with "cleaned, bent, holed, whizzed, etc." pieces. Coins with such problems seek their own price level based on the particular issue and the particular coin.

    You said "PCGS calls AU detail..." and "NGC will grade this and call a mint error planchet flaw". Unless NGC would label it "Unc. details" rather than "AU details", I'd leave it as is.

    NGC would grade it. Best guess AU58-MS62. Removes the negative connotation of details on the slab.

    Sounds like you answered your own question. Considering how this coin is out of the ordinary for what normally comes through the door, I am a little surprised it didn't get bumped up the food chain to a more senior decision maker. Maybe it did, and the powers that be didn't see it as worthy of special treatment, but would have been nice to get an explanation for why this planchet flaw is different from other planchet flaws.

    Nice coin.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021 1:34PM

    Just out of curiosity, and you may have indicated but I didn’t notice, how do you know NGC will grade as mint error? Have you shown it to them on a quick eval basis? If not, I would not necessarily assume NGC will not give their version of details.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you are going to keep the coin for a while I would leave it as-is - the NGC prongs would look terrible on that small, beautiful coin. However, if you may sell it soon, then do what will maximize value (probably an NGC straight grade).

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    By the way, I think it is rather harsh that PCGS will not straight grade it - the coin looks original with outstanding eye appeal.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,121 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From my experience, if you send it under the error category (with the additional fees), you will get it labeled as such. If you don't, then PCGS does consider a planchet flaw damage.
    I had a cool Peace dollar with a wicked-looking planchet flaw, and it took me the second submission (with the error fees) to get it in the "right" slab.

    peacockcoins

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2021 10:18AM

    .

  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    From my experience, if you send it under the error category (with the additional fees), you will get it labeled as such. If you don't, then PCGS does consider a planchet flaw damage.
    I had a cool Peace dollar with a wicked-looking planchet flaw, and it took me the second submission (with the error fees) to get it in the "right" slab.

    I think it is the same at NGC. I sent in a shilling with a planchet flaw and it cam back unc details. If I had put it under the error category I was told later that it would have straight graded as an error.

    https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3751621-006/NGCDetails/

    Best, SH

    My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would do whatever I could to get it into a straight grade holder.

  • truebloodtrueblood Posts: 609 ✭✭✭✭

    Send it back to pcgs and tell them they messed up, I wager they will correct it once its pointed out, they are good people.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @trueblood said:
    Send it back to pcgs and tell them they messed up, I wager they will correct it once its pointed out, they are good people.

    Based on their apparent policy, I don’t think they did mess up. See braddick’s post, four posts above yours.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While I do not agree with PCGS and their code 93, it does represent only a planchet flaw, not damage from metal movement. Why they deny a grade, I cannot imagine. Their choice. Hopefully, @braddick is correct and you can apply for the error designation and get it graded also. Best of luck.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just search for "PCGS planchet flaw" on Google. I haven't run across a single one that was straight graded yet.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d have NGC grade it. Their description sounds more accurate to me.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @trueblood said:
    Send it back to pcgs and tell them they messed up, I wager they will correct it once its pointed out, they are good people.

    Based on their apparent policy, I don’t think they did mess up. See braddick’s post, four posts above yours.

    Maybe they messed up when they set the policy? Sure seems to me that they should try to get it right, however the coin is submitted.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any chance you could call and discuss this issue with the TPG? If not, the above suggestion of requesting/paying for error classification seems to be the likely path. Cheers, RickO

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If PCGS won't reconsider, then I'd send it to NGC. I wouldn't want it in a details holder either...

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It deserves a straight grade...

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Too late on its way to NGC and I paid for error. Let’s see. I have free submission privileges. Last year ANA sent out an offer for free membership so I signed up. That gets you NGC membership. It ends May 1 so it was useful at this time.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2021 8:43AM

    Oh ya. after seeing the coin bare no plastic I am more certain that ever it is original but I think it saw a little circulation and I’m calling it AU58 so I expect 53 or 55 but no doubt it will grade if I submitted it right.
    One thing I really like about this particular example is the coin is flat. Many of these end up graded with wavy planchets, that always bugs me

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keep us posted! I just looked at the true view... That's a nice example!

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:
    Oh ya. after seeing the coin bare no plastic I am more certain that ever it is original but I think it saw a little circulation and I’m calling it AU58 so I expect 53 or 55 but no doubt it will grade if I submitted it right.

    If you like the NGC grade, perhaps you can see if PCGS will cross it under an error submission (but call and ask first, if you can get to the right person). The coin is too small, too historic, and too eye-appealing to be hidden by NGC prongs.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats on getting the grade it deserves, now that is great service.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,235 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The end result seems to make the most sense... congrats

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,361 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    I’d have NGC grade it. Their description sounds more accurate to me.

    This

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,070 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2021 10:22AM

    Posted to the wrong group of messages. Sorry.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    great result, congrats!

    My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2021 3:28PM

    I just hope the long term effect of the prongs does not do this:

    Probably won't, but the Bechtler is rather thin . . . .

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