Two 2020 PCGS MS69 bullion AGEs - two very different looks...?

RedSeals

Take a look at these two TVs for 2020 $50 AGEs - I do own both of these and can take poor cell phone pictures but you can certainly tell in hand that they are just a tad different.

Is this just due to a slightly different composition, or handling/storage making it tone - any ideas?

JBK

Interesting.

I do know that there has been at least one case of an off-metal gold bullion coin. If I recall corrrctly a pure gold planchet meant for a buffalo ounce was used for an AE coin.

coinsarefun

Very interesting, would love to learn more.

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

wow! this is exciting - eager to learn more why there's this dif between these specimens 👀

WAYNEAS

Nice post that requires a follow up. Please fill us in as you progress in your investigation.
Wayne

BuffaloIronTail

I would offer a comment if I knew what to say.

Strange. Very strange indeed.

Pete

BryceM

Can you post a photo of the two together? Even if it isn't perfect, it will give us something to go from.

Gold can look VERY different if you photograph it under different lighting conditions. If you look at Liberty's face, you can immediately see that at least the angle of the lighting is different. Differences in white balance settings could easily explain this.... but I'm guessing they look different in-hand too.

RedSeals

Here are cell phone pics:

MsMorrisine

Even though they are in slabs you can still weigh them for comparison

coinsarefun

The one on your right iPhone picture is what I am used to seeing the gold eagles look like.
The one on the left is what I wish they looked like and would collect them if they looked like that.
I’m flipped around today.....edited

RedSeals

@MsMorrisine said:
Even though they are in slabs you can still weigh them for comparison

I sent these in raw and noticed the difference before i sent them in. They weighed out perfect.

TurtleCat

I wonder if it is a case of planchet preparation or differences in the dies?

And totally agree I like the frosty one better. If the 2009 UHR had been frosty I’d have bought one.

ricko

Those two do appear significantly different. I would like to hear opinions from @FredWeinberg and @CaptHenway ...Cheers, RickO

RedSeals

Thanks for the responses so far, seems as if everyone is as stumped as I!

I figure it is:

Toning - strange becuase its such a recent issue

Misattribution - like one of them is burnished (but then it would have a mintmark right?)

Some type of mint error

Or maybe some bullion AGEs just come out different in the same year?!

RedSeals

Changed the title and bumping to front page to see if there is any other insight

Goldminers

Here is a 2020-W burnished for comparison. A gold buffalo mass is 1.0001 ounce, a modern gold eagle is 1.0909 ounce.

BryceM

If you look at the TrueView of the first coin, there is a clear line of demarcation roughly 1mm from the obverse rim, more-or-less at the stars. The same thing is visible, to a lesser extent, around the reverse as well. Inside of this line, the coin has a darker color.

Apart from that, the color difference on the slab shots is not as distinct as in the TrueViews, but it's still visible. I personally think it's a bit of toning, combined with a slightly different alloy. Little bits of platinum, silver, or other trace elements can cause a bit of color difference.

jmlanzaf

It looks to me like it's an Omega counterfeit. It's probably struck on a Mexican 50 peso coin.

RedSeals

@jmlanzaf said:
It looks to me like it's an Omega counterfeit. It's probably struck on a Mexican 50 peso coin.

Would be crazy if it slipped through pcgs gold shield system though...

jmski52

Add me to the long list of people who are intrigued by the 2nd coin. I like it.

DrBuster

@BryceM said:
If you look at the TrueView of the first coin, there is a clear line of demarcation roughly 1mm from the obverse rim, more-or-less at the stars. The same thing is visible, to a lesser extent, around the reverse as well. Inside of this line, the coin has a darker color.

Could something on the dies during minting cause this, on the surface?

jmlanzaf

@RedSeals said:

@jmlanzaf said:
It looks to me like it's an Omega counterfeit. It's probably struck on a Mexican 50 peso coin.

Would be crazy if it slipped through pcgs gold shield system though...

Inside joke. You had to be around for the Omega threads.

jmlanzaf

@BryceM said:
If you look at the TrueView of the first coin, there is a clear line of demarcation roughly 1mm from the obverse rim, more-or-less at the stars. The same thing is visible, to a lesser extent, around the reverse as well. Inside of this line, the coin has a darker color.

Apart from that, the color difference on the slab shots is not as distinct as in the TrueViews, but it's still visible. I personally think it's a bit of toning, combined with a slightly different alloy. Little bits of platinum, silver, or other trace elements can cause a bit of color difference.

Isn't there a similar "line of demarcation" on the 2nd coin? I'm guessing it's due to shadowing from the rim.

BryceM

Yeah, maybe just shadows - possible if they’re using ring lighting.

Pedzola

I’ve never seen AGEs to have a great deal of color variation. Interested in what the experts think on this one. I would have figured the first one, just because of the lighter color, was counterfeit.

SilverEagle1974

Cycling back & forth between the TrueViews, to me it seems the "Golden" one looks more defined than the "Brown" one.
Possibly, the "Golden" one is an earlier strike than the "Brown" one.

On the "Golden" one, the torch looks more defined, as well as, the sun rays, the words, numbers and the lines in Liberty's dress.

Possibly because of the earlier strike this led to a more golden hue.
As the die is used, it may contaminate the hue of the coin & therefore lead to a browner hue.

Again, just my thoughts.

Chris

RedSeals

@SilverEagle1974 said:
Cycling back & forth between the TrueViews, to me it seems the "Golden" one looks more defined than the "Brown" one.
Possibly, the "Golden" one is an earlier strike than the "Brown" one.

On the "Golden" one, the torch looks more defined, as well as, the sun rays, the words, numbers and the lines in Liberty's dress.

Possibly because of the earlier strike this led to a more golden hue.
As the die is used, it may contaminate the hue of the coin & therefore lead to a browner hue.

Again, just my thoughts.

Chris

This sounds like a reasonable explanation!

Any other thoughts from the forum?