2 more pictures added _ Old Coin Collector, still learning, what would you say? Online Auction
Joe_360
Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
So, I purchased this 1934 Peace Dollar via an online auction. Purchased only by picture and description provided, "Uncirculated"
First picture is what I saw and bid on, the second picture is the coin received. Any comments?
I hate the lack of Coin Shows....
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Comments
The coin in the auction picture is obviously not the coin you received. What were your assurance that it would be? Have you queried the dealer?
It’s not at all obvious to me. Based on the placement of some marks in each image - see upper lip and chin, among other areas - I think its probably the same coin, seen under very different lighting.
It doesn’t look uncirculated to me. But if it’s the same coin, unless the terms of sale allow returns for dissatisfied buyers, grading opinions likely don’t matter.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think it is the same coin looking at the marks. The sellers image is so blown out with light that it does not show all of the problems. I was just looking at a pile of problem coins I have because of similar auctions. Tuition sucks.
What, did he take the picture through a screen door?
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Maybe you should avoid raw coins while you are learning.
I was very much looking forward to receiving this coin. I want to kick myself...
File a not a described case. It's not uncirculated. Described incorrectly. Seller will then be required to pay for return shipping and should in this case.
bob
I agree, and have considered that, but I wanted my collection to be in an album and have never broken a slab. I guess that is what I should learn to do. If anyone has some advise, please send.
The last 4 on my list are the expensive ones and no, I will not buy site unseen, another lesson - again, I hate no Coin Shows and that where I have always bought my coins...
Thank Bob, at the start of the auction they tell you to look closely at the picture and form your own opinion. They state that there description is their best estimation. They clearly "Bleach-out" out the photo to remove the scratches.
I saw the photo and believed. To be honest, by the naked eye the coin looks very nice, under magnification you see the scratches. The scratches are hairline and not deep, but as you can see, are many....
Any auction with pics like that I would assume the seller is trying to hide something.
Agreed. If you look at the reverse images, you can tell it's the same coin by the marks on the "R" in PLURIBUS and the first "U" in UNUM.
Sadly it’s part of the tuition we all have to pay. Seeing the coin in person is the best but many of us have to judge by pictures. Sometimes you will find a gem but more often pictures like these are hiding things. I refuse to buy based on poor pictures even if it means I may miss a rare deal or two.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Same coin, different lighting.
Lighting may have changed the way the coin really looked.
Can we see whole-coin images instead of close-ups?
It's also an absolutely awful photo. I don't want to reward a seller who peddles stuff in this manner, but...
There is no coin that looks the way that one does in the seller's lighting. When a picture is awful, the buyer has some responsibility to recognize that they have no idea what they're bidding on.
The lighting is overexposed, a lot. That can hide a multitude of sins.
That appears why the seller relied on the "uncirculated" in the description. Not every ebay can take good photos of coins and thus the description becomes paramount to the purchase.
bob
The coin looks better in hand than in the photos.
Looks like the same coin. Definitely not uncirculated. If described as such, file an ebay "not as described" claim.
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
Agreed
so return it because the seller was deceptive
Don't let this seller get away with this, but since this is not an eBay purchase, it sounds like you you might not have return privileges. The seller's pictures are clearly deceptive, way over exposed or saturated.
I b believe you got the coin originally (deceptively) pictured. You will quickly learn to avoid these.
And when photos are clear as day but a problem isn’t written out you can argue that the problem wasn’t mentioned and SNAD it. Here’s a seller with no known reputation (as far as we know)... his photos are useless and there’s no basis to trust his description. So why do we? This is a completely blind purchase. This is the kind of coin where you can just get one easily with a good photo or a trustworthy description... save the headache and get that one.
Based on what you are showing us, those are pretty da*n deceptive pictures. Look overexposed and "processed".
Not kewl, especially when even a cheap phone can probably take pictures better than that. But, I think in todays world we have to be wary of crappy pictures. Long ago they were the norm' ... today they can be used to the con's advantage
EDIT; based on newer pictures below, I would NOT say these are deceptive. I retract everything I said, but will leave it here
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
The ebay skeptic in me is saying the lighting was "adjusted" so that the coin looked its best.
Return it. If they don't allow returns, file a Not as Described complaint. You should win.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
While you might be correct about the seller’s state of mind, it’s impossible to know or prove it. So it’s better for the OP to omit any claims in that regard and stick with facts he can back up.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Was not eBay, was an live online auction
Not eBay, live online auction. Thanks
Thanks for the feedback and inputs
I have to add, there was thousands of $$$ being bid on some "UNC" MORGANS and items like a 1955DD Lincoln, etc.
UNC 1928 Peace Dollars going for $400 plus - Same type of pictures.
As a photographer, I'll draw a distinction here. If a photo looks deceptive and off, that's a good sign you should pass. I work very hard to make sure my photos are accurate, but I could (to be clear, I DO NOT) make many coins (whether they have true problems or just standard hits, etc.) look far better than they are with lighting. The photos will look totally normal, the coins will look great, and you'd be disappointed as a buyer. But it's very different when the photo looks like garbage from the start. It means the photographer either has no skill or did it on purpose. Either way, what you see is not what you'll get. Pass.
Overexposing is well known to photographers as a way to hide flaws. Did you know that many of the Playboy centerfolds were not done by airbrushing but rather by elaborate lighting setups?
Get your money back if you can. If not, chalk it up as a learning expense. At least you end up with a silver dollar.
@airplanenut While I agree with you Jeremey in that any picture that looks this way should be a hard pass expect under the most unusual of circumstances, you seem to be taking this as a personal affront.
I can also tweak my pictures to make them look the most glamorous or mark free as possible, but like you, that's not how I like to see them, or how I like to show them. As some commented in a post I made earlier about a NEWP, "au natural'" is best.
I didn't see the auction, know who the seller is, and don't know about their other auctions ... nor do I know what the seller was thinking or trying to do, or if they truly had no skill. However, that coin is not "Uncirculated", but by saying so, the seller implied he or she did have some Numismatic skill, for which such a picture, in todays age, is EXTREMELY suspect.
EDIT; based on newer pictures below, I would NOT say these are deceptive. I retract everything I said, but will leave it here
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Most European auction items are pictured like this.
Photographic tricks.... easy to hide scratches and dings...
I hate it....my images are all detailed... it is what you get, scratch or no scratch.
Expect an auction house knows how to present items in their best light as well as deflect responsibility for misrepresentations. Personally I have found that I have to take pictures with and show pictures from my digital camera, smartphone, and USB microscope to feel comfortable listing coins for sale on-line. So hard to know if fraud was intended. Best I can suggest is to send a letter (not email) registering your displeasure. Maybe someone with a conscience that makes decisions will see it and do the right thing.
US auction. Mostly every weekend but some Friday nights. Stated "Estate of Semiconductor executive", but also states Lawyers, Doctor, Casino Executive, etc... Multiple days, thousands of coins and varieties of types, dates, metals, lots and lots of Morgan's. Many coins selling for many thousands into the $20k. All pictures looks the same, what I refer to now as "Bleached". But every coins gets sold...
Starts up with only 15-20 participates and go up to 80-100.
Thanks for the posts, Joe
More Pictures:
Regarding the OP... I can see it is the same coin, however, as stated by others, it is a glamour shot with bright lighting. If you are unhappy, return the coin. If no returns, sell it and chalk it up to lessons learned. Cheers, RickO
And yet, the coin was not on ebay
My personal affront is based on being an eBay seller. I realize this wasn't an eBay auction, but replies have been treated like it was, and this mirrors a lot of eBay threads. There are plenty of scummy sellers--I get it. The problem I have is that whenever someone is disappointed, replies pour in about filing a SNAD and letting eBay solve it. That may work (heck, it works even if the buyer has no legitimate beef at all!) but what I rarely see is a reply about personal accountability. It's on thing to be tricked by someone nefarious being sneaky. It's another to think you're being screwed but there were half a dozen red flags. I still haven't seen the full obverse/reverse shot from the seller in this thread, though I've asked for it. From the latest photos the coin looks like it's probably a slider and likely either dipped or lightly wiped. But based on the little bits of information about the original listing, everything points to it being a coin you should know to avoid. So yes, on eBay you can always make the seller responsible, but I hate advocating for that. I've been on the losing end many times, primarily when I did absolutely nothing wrong.
i didn't read the entire thread, but i guess you have already figured out to stay away from listings with really bad photos. there are exceptions to this rule, but for the most part...stay away. i would try to negotiate a return with the seller.
The second set of photos doesn't look so bad to me. However buying raw coins on line is risky. Even with good photos it is really hard to see surface issues sometimes. If the coin is valuable enough to be in a slab but isn't, there's probably a reason.
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