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Might be about time for the metals to show their mettle

cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

Chart of producer prices. Shaded areas are recessions. Prices usually decline during recessions...except this time, and in the 70's (both times marked by supply constraints). Is the Fed just jawboning the idea of "transitory" inflation?

Excuses are tools of the ignorant

Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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Comments

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    leading into the great recession, they were calling inflation transitory.

    anyway inflation is CPI not PPI and it's not CPI that's used by the fed now it's pce.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look Out below. The gutter never seems to disappoint. THANKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    leading into the great recession, they were calling inflation transitory.

    anyway inflation is CPI not PPI and it's not CPI that's used by the fed now it's pce.

    Please explain your comment. How is PPI not a measure of inflation? Does PPI not flow into CPI or PCE?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021 7:08PM

    Gold’s Singular Role

    "The changing price of gold is attributable to one thing only: changes in the value of the US dollar."

    From the time it was first used in barter, gold has always shown its mettle (resiliency). It has constant value in what it can buy. It's price changes only because the declining value of the currency used to purchase it changes.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Gold’s Singular Role

    "The changing price of gold is attributable to one thing only: changes in the value of the US dollar."

    It has constant value in what it can buy. It's price changes only because the declining value of the currency used to purchase it changes.

    Thats not exactly a rousing endorsement.

    However, back to the OP, dont be surprised if that PPI chart shows an upside breakout. One that could last for many years.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:
    Gold’s Singular Role

    "The changing price of gold is attributable to one thing only: changes in the value of the US dollar."

    It has constant value in what it can buy. It's price changes only because the declining value of the currency used to purchase it changes.

    Thats not exactly a rousing endorsement.

    gold is money, nothing else. It's endorsement lies in 1000s of years of being used as such. If you want something else, buy something else.

    And yes, commodities are normally the first to show inflation is in force. No surprise.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021 5:00AM

    You dont see it, do you derby?
    Do you see anything in that chart?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021 5:50AM

    I don't see a current recession. lol

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok then. Ill wait a few months when you post a link to a blog discussing this very chart. I was hoping you could provide some original thought though. Anyway, y'all got a "heads up".

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2021 4:47AM

    Haha...

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BLS broken? COMEX next?

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭

    .

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So does anyone want to measure the (initial) expected move in PPI as depicted in the OP chart?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ouch on the ASE spread!

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will chime in on the "buy now" days.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    there is no reason to ever buy ASE's , all the spreads are wide but I am much further up on the morgan dollars I bought for an average of 15 each than any of you ASE guys are.

    Either way there are millions out there but with the morgans that number is not going up.

    I learned my lesson on ASE's with the 2006 2007 and 2008 Burnished unc. I had a ton of those at one time and all it took was 5 years later for the mint to make a new lower mintage to kill that goose forever.

    The mint is your partner in modern dreck and the mint is not to be trusted

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How do you even hope to break even paying 41$ for an ASE ? Hey maybe silver will go to $50 and provident will buy them back for $42 :D

    That is a F### Y## price if I ever saw one . You can almost do better buying an engagement ring at a jeweler and flipping it to a we buy gold shop a week later

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    there is no reason to ever buy ASE's , all the spreads are wide but I am much further up on the morgan dollars I bought for an average of 15 each than any of you ASE guys are.

    Either way there are millions out there but with the morgans that number is not going up.

    I learned my lesson on ASE's with the 2006 2007 and 2008 Burnished unc. I had a ton of those at one time and all it took was 5 years later for the mint to make a new lower mintage to kill that goose forever.

    The mint is your partner in modern dreck and the mint is not to be trusted

    As the song goes:

    "If you're gonna play the game, boy
    You gotta learn to play it right

    You've got to know when to hold 'em
    Know when to fold 'em
    Know when to walk away
    And know when to run
    You never count your money
    When you're sittin' at the table
    There'll be time enough for countin'
    When the dealin's done

    ;)

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OPA you broke the cardinal rule . Never remind people of Kenny Rogers :(

    He got all that plastic surgery and it made him look like a clown , what was he thinking there?

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've bought thousands of silver eagles and I don't recall ever paying more than $3 over spot for any of them (except for those 25th anniversary 5pc sets). I've always got the premium back out of them and then some. Most liquid silver on planet earth and by far the best to buy imo.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    I've bought thousands of silver eagles and I don't recall ever paying more than $3 over spot for any of them (except for those 25th anniversary 5pc sets). I've always got the premium back out of them and then some. Most liquid silver on planet earth and by far the best to buy imo.

    liquid ? post some on the BST for $42 each and we'll soon see how liquid :D

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:

    @blitzdude said:
    I've bought thousands of silver eagles and I don't recall ever paying more than $3 over spot for any of them (except for those 25th anniversary 5pc sets). I've always got the premium back out of them and then some. Most liquid silver on planet earth and by far the best to buy imo.

    liquid ? post some on the BST for $42 each and we'll soon see how liquid :D

    $42 an ounce? lol I'm more than happy with the $35-$37 I'm getting on craigslist instant cash money. No shipping required.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    well thats my point . APEX can't have them flying off the shelves at 42 . 42$ buyers are morons and they are ok selling to morons if need be.

    To me 42 is a price point where they don't have a lot on hand so they are not saying we are short but we have arranged it so we are not going to sell many.

    Now I just looked at the main page there and see maple leafs at 36 ASE's with at 42 . There is no way anyone wants to pay 6 bucks more for an ASE than a maple . The maple is a better coin even with that hag's mug on the obverse

    That being said I still don't want to pay 36 an ounce

    Ive tried raising the price on my antique booth pandas above 35 and they are not moving :#

    With Pandas there may be a different issue , the swap to 30 grams bothered a lot of people and may have affected how people feel in general , corona might have as well ( anti china sentiment?) . Either way I'm dumping all the pandas. Come to think of it the rash of ali baba fake pandas over the past few years didn't help much either ;)

    I see 10 oz bars for 325 ish that might be APMEX's true price point , they seem to think silver should be around 30 an ounce

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 3:56AM

    Yes....i would agree the value of physical silver should be based on volume weighted activity. If 100, 10oz bars trade for $32 and 100 ASE trade for $42, then physical would be valued at $32.90.

    This wouldnt fit the narrative from the bullion pushers, but would be more accuarte and representative of the market.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now back to the OP. Producer prices have decidedly broken out of a 13 year basing pattern and project to an increase of about 20% in the next 12-24 months. A new floor in prices is being built which maybe be 50% than the average over the last decade. The Fed could stop this, but i dont believe they want to.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    How do you even hope to break even paying 41$ for an ASE ? Hey maybe silver will go to $50 and provident will buy them back for $42 :D

    That is a F### Y## price if I ever saw one . You can almost do better buying an engagement ring at a jeweler and flipping it to a we buy gold shop a week later

    I remember thinking the exact same thing back in 2009 when I paid $12.50 per coin for a monster box. Appears I was wrong and I believe you will be also.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    How do you even hope to break even paying 41$ for an ASE ? Hey maybe silver will go to $50 and provident will buy them back for $42 :D

    That is a F### Y## price if I ever saw one . You can almost do better buying an engagement ring at a jeweler and flipping it to a we buy gold shop a week later

    I remember thinking the exact same thing back in 2009 when I paid $12.50 per coin for a monster box. Appears I was wrong and I believe you will be also.

    Considering spot silver only traded under 12.50 for 19 days in 2009 and the average closing price during that time was about 11.53, it doesnt appear you paid much of a premium. Certainly not the 40-50% premiums we see today.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    How do you even hope to break even paying 41$ for an ASE ? Hey maybe silver will go to $50 and provident will buy them back for $42 :D

    That is a F### Y## price if I ever saw one . You can almost do better buying an engagement ring at a jeweler and flipping it to a we buy gold shop a week later

    I remember thinking the exact same thing back in 2009 when I paid $12.50 per coin for a monster box. Appears I was wrong and I believe you will be also.

    Considering spot silver only traded under 12.50 for 19 days in 2009 and the average closing price during that time was about 11.53, it doesnt appear you paid much of a premium. Certainly not the 40-50% premiums we see today.

    Actually 20 days (Jan. 2009) with a low of $10.51. And yes premiums and prices were much lower then, the whole reason for my reply to the member declaring that today's premiums and prices are too high. They are too high when compared to the past but how will they appear in the future?

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    How do you even hope to break even paying 41$ for an ASE ? Hey maybe silver will go to $50 and provident will buy them back for $42 :D

    That is a F### Y## price if I ever saw one . You can almost do better buying an engagement ring at a jeweler and flipping it to a we buy gold shop a week later

    I remember thinking the exact same thing back in 2009 when I paid $12.50 per coin for a monster box. Appears I was wrong and I believe you will be also.

    Considering spot silver only traded under 12.50 for 19 days in 2009 and the average closing price during that time was about 11.53, it doesnt appear you paid much of a premium. Certainly not the 40-50% premiums we see today.

    Actually 20 days (Jan. 2009) with a low of $10.51. And yes premiums and prices were much lower then, the whole reason for my reply to the member declaring that today's premiums and prices are too high. They are too high when compared to the past but how will they appear in the future?

    Lower? Probably MUCH lower would be my bet.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    then you should sell me your guttermetal at spot while it is high.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    How do you even hope to break even paying 41$ for an ASE ? Hey maybe silver will go to $50 and provident will buy them back for $42 :D

    That is a F### Y## price if I ever saw one . You can almost do better buying an engagement ring at a jeweler and flipping it to a we buy gold shop a week later

    I remember thinking the exact same thing back in 2009 when I paid $12.50 per coin for a monster box. Appears I was wrong and I believe you will be also.

    Considering spot silver only traded under 12.50 for 19 days in 2009 and the average closing price during that time was about 11.53, it doesnt appear you paid much of a premium. Certainly not the 40-50% premiums we see today.

    Actually 20 days (Jan. 2009) with a low of $10.51. And yes premiums and prices were much lower then, the whole reason for my reply to the member declaring that today's premiums and prices are too high. They are too high when compared to the past but how will they appear in the future?

    The timing of your purchase was impeccable, as usual. Lol.

    Others bought SLV and had greater returns.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    then you should sell me your guttermetal at spot while it is high.

    Doing just fine getting $37 each locally but thanks for the offer. Cash goes to PSLV, when eagles are readily available everywhere at $2 over PSLV goes back to cash, cash goes back to ASEs. It's not rocket science. Increase the stack by 30% without even spending a dime. :sunglasses:

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 12:39AM

    @cohodk said:

    Others bought SLV and had greater returns.

    Depending on the timing, others that bought SLV have had lesser returns (or greater losses) than those who bought physical silver.

    SLV does not enjoy the same premium over spot that physical silver currently has. In fact, SLV has a negative premium that is guaranteed to get worse over time.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 5:47AM

    @dcarr said:

    @cohodk said:

    Others bought SLV and had greater returns.

    Depending on the timing, others that bought SLV have had lesser returns (or greater losses) than those who bought physical silver.

    SLV does not enjoy the same premium over spot that physical silver currently has. In fact, SLV has a negative premium that is guaranteed to get worse over time.

    Does SLV track spot more, or less, closely than physical?

    Does one have the ability to create an income stream from physical as one can do from SLV?

    Can physical be hedged against price decline as can SLV?

    Can one leverage physical as they can SLV?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 7:05AM

    SLV is nothing more than a paper derivative based on a promise. It's claim of physical backing is highly questionable as it's metal is mixed with that of others and is likely leased out or even worse leased in. It is the poor man's simpler way to play the futures market. If an ETF is the weapon of choice, one would be better advised to choose PSLV over SLV. As DC pointed out, SLV, over time, has a decay factor.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sales are steady, in spite of premiums. A few guys tell me it's still cheap with the premiums. Go figure.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    Does SLV track spot more, or less, closely than physical?

    SLV has a stronger correlation to changes in "spot" price than physical. This correlation can be advantageous or disadvantageous. When premiums on physical silver are increasing, SLV is at a disadvantage. And, of course, SLV has a built-in decay which I find highly undesirable.

    @cohodk said:

    Does one have the ability to create an income stream from physical as one can do from SLV?

    Is any such "income" greater than the decay rate ?

    @cohodk said:

    Can physical be hedged against price decline as can SLV?

    Physical silver holdings can be hedged against decline by shorting a similar amount of silver on COMEX.

    @cohodk said:

    Can one leverage physical as they can SLV?

    Leveraging is bad, as is any form of borrowing money to speculate with.
    But if you really want, you can get loans on physical bullion holdings (and use that money to buy more bullion).

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @cohodk said:

    Does SLV track spot more, or less, closely than physical?

    SLV has a stronger correlation to changes in "spot" price than physical. This correlation can be advantageous or disadvantageous. When premiums on physical silver are increasing, SLV is at a disadvantage. And, of course, SLV has a built-in decay which I find highly undesirable.

    @cohodk said:

    Does one have the ability to create an income stream from physical as one can do from SLV?

    Is any such "income" greater than the decay rate ?

    Yes.

    How much is the decay cost and is that roughly the same or more as the cost to hold physical (insurance, safes, deposit bixes, weapons, security cameras, etc)?

    @cohodk said:

    Can physical be hedged against price decline as can SLV?

    Physical silver holdings can be hedged against decline by shorting a similar amount of silver on COMEX.

    So paper is necessary to hedge physical. If one is against paper, then how confident are they that this is a good strategy? Why not just go long the paper in the first place?

    @cohodk said:

    Can one leverage physical as they can SLV?

    Leveraging is bad, as is any form of borrowing money to speculate with.
    But if you really want, you can get loans on physical bullion holdings (and use that money to buy more bullion).

    Leveraging is not bad, but one does not need to borrow anything to leverage SLV. How much does it cost to borrow money against physical?

    It appears you beef with SLV is "decay", which is for the most part the cost to mange the fund. However, this cost is probably the same as one would incur by holding physical when all costs are considered--storage, security, shipping, etc.

    Fwiw, I own both, and probably in equal proportion (at the present time) but that proportion can change considerably within seconds, and often does, and i expect will very shortly.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    If an ETF is the weapon of choice, one would be better advised to choose PSLV over SLV. As DC pointed out, SLV, over time, has a decay factor.

    Why PSLV over SLV? You know PSLV has actually underperformed SLV, dont you?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2021 3:55AM

    You don't know?

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @dcarr said:

    @cohodk said:

    Does SLV track spot more, or less, closely than physical?

    SLV has a stronger correlation to changes in "spot" price than physical. This correlation can be advantageous or disadvantageous. When premiums on physical silver are increasing, SLV is at a disadvantage. And, of course, SLV has a built-in decay which I find highly undesirable.

    @cohodk said:

    Does one have the ability to create an income stream from physical as one can do from SLV?

    Is any such "income" greater than the decay rate ?

    Yes.

    How so ?
    Please explain how an "income stream" is generated by owning SLV.

    @cohodk said:

    How much is the decay cost and is that roughly the same or more as the cost to hold physical (insurance, safes, deposit bixes, weapons, security cameras, etc)?

    @cohodk said:

    Can physical be hedged against price decline as can SLV?

    Physical silver holdings can be hedged against decline by shorting a similar amount of silver on COMEX.

    So paper is necessary to hedge physical. If one is against paper, then how confident are they that this is a good strategy? Why not just go long the paper in the first place?

    Holding a promise to receive silver (long on COMEX) is counter to the reason for holding precious metals in the first place. Physical silver can be transacted between individuals with no need for a broker or exchange located in New York or Chicago. A major failure in the financial system could mean that you get nothing. Having a portion of assets that are financially "off the grid" (so to speak) is why people want physical silver and gold. For anyone wishing to own precious metals, I would never recommend that they let someone else hold it for them, or promise to deliver it in the future.

    Even if a person has no valuable assets, a security system is still a good thing to have. The cost of any such system is a non-factor. As for "weapons" (guns) there is no net cost there at all. In fact, the market values of most guns have continued to go up over time. So "weapons" is totally a non-factor in the overall cost of holding metals.

    @cohodk said:

    Can one leverage physical as they can SLV?

    Leveraging is bad, as is any form of borrowing money to speculate with.
    But if you really want, you can get loans on physical bullion holdings (and use that money to buy more bullion).

    Leveraging is not bad, but one does not need to borrow anything to leverage SLV. How much does it cost to borrow money against physical?

    Leveraging is bad, especially for individuals. Doing so makes one the "weakest hand" in the market. You become a prime target for manipulators to move the market against you. Leveraging is at the root of most financial collapses.

    @cohodk said:

    It appears you beef with SLV is "decay", which is for the most part the cost to mange the fund. However, this cost is probably the same as one would incur by holding physical when all costs are considered--storage, security, shipping, etc.

    Fwiw, I own both, and probably in equal proportion (at the present time) but that proportion can change considerably within seconds, and often does, and i expect will very shortly.

    SLV has decay. But it is also based on promises. Promises which can be broken if shocks to the financial system are severe enough.

    You come across as a person who works in the financial industry, selling financial products to retail customers.

    If that is the case, you are not going to find many lucrative customers for that sort of thing on this forum, so I don't know why you bother.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2021 4:41PM

    Just sold the slickest quarters I've ever seen at 26x. As our masters once said, There's a sucker born just about every minute. Straight to checking and then off to PSLV. It's going higher and so am I, perhaps literally. I'll buy them back next year at 10x. Life in the gutter. Lulz

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 746 ✭✭✭

    26x nice gutter lol

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @cohodk said:

    @dcarr said:

    @cohodk said:

    Does SLV track spot more, or less, closely than physical?

    SLV has a stronger correlation to changes in "spot" price than physical. This correlation can be advantageous or disadvantageous. When premiums on physical silver are increasing, SLV is at a disadvantage. And, of course, SLV has a built-in decay which I find highly undesirable.

    @cohodk said:

    Does one have the ability to create an income stream from physical as one can do from SLV?

    Is any such "income" greater than the decay rate ?

    Yes.

    How so ?
    Please explain how an "income stream" is generated by owning SLV.

    @cohodk said:

    How much is the decay cost and is that roughly the same or more as the cost to hold physical (insurance, safes, deposit bixes, weapons, security cameras, etc)?

    @cohodk said:

    Can physical be hedged against price decline as can SLV?

    Physical silver holdings can be hedged against decline by shorting a similar amount of silver on COMEX.

    So paper is necessary to hedge physical. If one is against paper, then how confident are they that this is a good strategy? Why not just go long the paper in the first place?

    Holding a promise to receive silver (long on COMEX) is counter to the reason for holding precious metals in the first place. Physical silver can be transacted between individuals with no need for a broker or exchange located in New York or Chicago. A major failure in the financial system could mean that you get nothing. Having a portion of assets that are financially "off the grid" (so to speak) is why people want physical silver and gold. For anyone wishing to own precious metals, I would never recommend that they let someone else hold it for them, or promise to deliver it in the future.

    Even if a person has no valuable assets, a security system is still a good thing to have. The cost of any such system is a non-factor. As for "weapons" (guns) there is no net cost there at all. In fact, the market values of most guns have continued to go up over time. So "weapons" is totally a non-factor in the overall cost of holding metals.

    @cohodk said:

    Can one leverage physical as they can SLV?

    Leveraging is bad, as is any form of borrowing money to speculate with.
    But if you really want, you can get loans on physical bullion holdings (and use that money to buy more bullion).

    Leveraging is not bad, but one does not need to borrow anything to leverage SLV. How much does it cost to borrow money against physical?

    Leveraging is bad, especially for individuals. Doing so makes one the "weakest hand" in the market. You become a prime target for manipulators to move the market against you. Leveraging is at the root of most financial collapses.

    @cohodk said:

    It appears you beef with SLV is "decay", which is for the most part the cost to mange the fund. However, this cost is probably the same as one would incur by holding physical when all costs are considered--storage, security, shipping, etc.

    Fwiw, I own both, and probably in equal proportion (at the present time) but that proportion can change considerably within seconds, and often does, and i expect will very shortly.

    SLV has decay. But it is also based on promises. Promises which can be broken if shocks to the financial system are severe enough.

    You come across as a person who works in the financial industry, selling financial products to retail customers.

    If that is the case, you are not going to find many lucrative customers for that sort of thing on this forum, so I don't know why you bother.

    .
    .
    Still waiting for an explanation as to how an "income stream" can be generated by holding SLV ...
    .
    .

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For dcarr....

    @derryb said:
    You don't know?

    HAHA

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    Still waiting for an explanation as to how an "income stream" can be generated by holding SLV ...

    Sell options.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @dcarr said:

    Still waiting for an explanation as to how an "income stream" can be generated by holding SLV ...

    Sell options.

    That could just as easily cause an additional loss.
    I certainly wouldn't classify the speculation in options as an "income stream".

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2021 12:11PM

    @dcarr said:

    @cohodk said:

    @dcarr said:

    Still waiting for an explanation as to how an "income stream" can be generated by holding SLV ...

    Sell options.

    That could just as easily cause an additional loss.
    I certainly wouldn't classify the speculation in options as an "income stream".

    Then you dont understand options and strategies. Thats ok. Many folk dont.

    Speculation is peculiar word though, isnt it?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭

    Covered calls

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