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U.S. Three cent silvers.....fish scales

HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

I am new here at C.U. and when searched out this topic came up empty.
So decided to start a thread about not only 3 cent silvers, but 3 cn too.
This thread will also address something that many of us older collectors have tried our best to always avoid.
That being detailed coins....as I know my self having purchased more raw specimens over the 50 + years no matter how good you think you are.....you are first and foremost human...subject to error, if by chance you should be a visitor from another planet non- human.....well please pm me as I got a lot of questions.
I was asked a few months ago to pen an article for error scope. I never had the chance to see or read the finial print haven been layed up with some health issues.
But this write up came about with the purchase of the specimen pictured below.

The meat of the story had to deal with would" you knowingly "buy a detailed coin?
As a H-10 collector with his collection down to the very hard to find key specimens with small mintages .
A good example the 1865 h~10 would you buy a detailed specimen?
As a 60 + y/o collector realizing that the possibilities of finding a specimen that isnt detailed may never happen...do you lower your standards and complete the series by including detailed coins, or do you leave the slot open until by chance you do find a specimen that fits the bill at a price point that is doable for your pocket?
Lets share some thoughts..... and have a look at a specimen I decided that is actually like one of 8 to ten known.....and is also one of the higher graded known specimens to exist.

"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

Comments

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1852 inverted date US silver 3 cent silver. Shown above in xf details is like 1 of 10 known to exist. I disagree with the minor variety, as again the population sort of sez different.

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So less than 50% of known specimens have graded without details grade.....so if you were a 3 cent silver collector the odds of finding one for sale, at a price point doable to your budget would be very difficult.....wouldn't you say?
    So getting back to the main question.....Can I live with a detailed specimen in my collection?
    As again we are talking a personal decision, that for some maybe hard to except.
    There is plenty room for discussion pro's /con's .......but again lets say you"re a" type A" person.... you know the type....all " i's" dotted "t" crossed....no room for anything a miss. Plenty of order....in life .....sometimes driving other nuts type lol.
    What would you do?
    You have an opportunity to buy a rare variety....but.....it has issues flip or fly?

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭






    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the coin suited me I would buy it. If it worried me I wouldn't. I believe it would be up to each individual's taste to make the decision. It's like some beautiful graded coin that has a small black spot, yet highly graded. To some it would be inconsequential, but to others a killer. Is as it is to each of us. Especially thinking of the coins rarity, I believe the detailed coin to be acceptable to me.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • LazybonesLazybones Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If nothing else, your post suggests that, in some cases, collectors must have some flexibility. If there is a coin that you want and can not afford a straight-graded example then it's a "details" coin or nothing.

    Just my eversohumble opinion.

    USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021 9:37AM

    I disagree with the "Minor Variety" designation, as well. There are a couple overdates in the series, but they can't hold a candle to this one and aren't really visible on circulated coins. It's in the CPG as FS-301, so it seems like they have two different spec numbers for this one.

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lazybones said:
    If nothing else, your post suggests that, in some cases, collectors must have some flexibility. If there is a coin that you want and can not afford a straight-graded example then it's a "details" coin or nothing.

    Just my eversohumble opinion.

    I guess my post truly ask ,or wants to know on a personal level ,whether you can be content with the choice of details or nada.
    Some of us are just so anal that it would truly couldn't handel the fact.
    I have seen [ and to each their own ] specimens that are so far gone ,yet some find satifaction having 1/2 a loaf rather than none.
    And again this thread there's no correct answer....just food for thought...should one day in your collecting life time you come to this point.
    So I guess my question is more so a poll....asking you could you pull the trigger, and then live with it.

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that other things can trump the details holder. If you're buying the coin, and not the holder, sometimes you might have to overlook things that happened to the coin after it was minted. The above references inverted date/inverted date is always going to be that variety. If you want to find/afford one, I think it's OK to look past the fact that it lived a rough life. There's likely not another one waiting on you.

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:
    I disagree with the "Minor Variety" designation, as well. There are a couple overdates in the series, but they can't hold a candle to this one and aren't really visible on circulated coins. It's in the CPG as FS-301, so it seems like they have two different spec numbers for this one.

    messydesk
    I found in my mind that was an error by PCGS that sort of adds to the specimen and slab....not trying to put down....pcgs as again the human factor in play.....so one positive aspect is we know that PCGS isn't run by alien life forms! LoL or a supernatural being.... what we do know is that everyone makes mistakes esspecially this author.....just ask the wife. LoL

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A. That is a very collectible coin. If you find a better one buy it, but until then enjoy this one. I like it.
    B. It is NOT an "Inverted Date over Inverted Date." It is a "Normal Date over Inverted Date."
    C. It is NOT a "minor error." I consider all of the inverted dates to be major engraving errors.
    MOO
    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now let me add a little more fuel.... have a look at this specimen

    Believe it or not this graded.....no issues! Now again not meant to stir it up....just questions what my eye see.....and what the surfaces of this specimen looks like..... thoughts?

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    A. That is a very collectible coin. If you find a better one buy it, but until then enjoy this one. I like it.
    B. It is NOT an "Inverted Date over Inverted Date." It is a "Normal Date over Inverted Date."
    C. It is NOT a "minor error." I consider all of the inverted dates to be major engraving errors.
    MOO
    TD

    Oh I do enjoy this as part of my collection, never would of added it had I had a second thoughts.
    Yes true maybe a hard sale if flipped, as lets face it certain series are at the lower end of interest,as others command both desire,and higher value.
    As to your obversation bingo! I sort of set up that to see if anyone would ID correctly!
    I am a variety collector first.... filling holes never seemed to complete my collection needs.
    But again that's what I like , to obtain variety coins that strike my fancy, with no rules as to needing to complete a set or series.
    That said I have several complete collections of different series....only becaue as a YN in the 60's did....however I was fortunate enough to have a news paper route,and a father who was a Federal Reserve agent who worked for the Fed for 47 years!
    March 24 1964 was the 1st released Kennedy half dollar, on the 23 the night before, my father came home with a $10 roll of the replacement of the Franklin half.
    I was literally the 1st 10 year old YN to hold a Kennedy half dollar in hand ! On the 24 the banks were filled with customers wanting more so the new coin than regular banking business.
    The banks blew out of coinage day 1! Yet this young buck was in high cotton!
    A well know member here who had invited me to join this fourm ,I recently gave him one of those coins, as my father, knew that the series whould be hot and unknowing to me had put another unc. Roll away found with a note after his passing.
    I guess to some these would not hold more than spot value.....but knowing they were purchased that day before, knowing I was the only ten Y/O who had what everyone else wanted still holds a lot of value some 57 years later!

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HalfDimeDude said:
    Now let me add a little more fuel.... have a look at this specimen

    Believe it or not this graded.....no issues! Now again not meant to stir it up....just questions what my eye see.....and what the surfaces of this specimen looks like..... thoughts?

    I think those marks on the reverse from 12-3 o'clock were on the planchet before it was struck, so I can accept that coin in a straight graded holder.

    To answer your original question, I value rarity over condition and I have happily welcomed problem coins into my collection when problem free examples are unavailable or simply do not exist. The Barber quarter and half in my clipped type set were both cleaned, but I've never had another opportunity to acquire a different quarter and I waited almost thirty years for the chance to buy the half. Trust me, when I see those coins in my album, I am not scowling because of the cleaning.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021 1:36PM

    I am a type collector have been one for about 60 years. I have dabbled with die varieties, but the only time I got serious was with the half cent series. I got up to a variety or two that had a then known population of 20 or fewer pieces, and had to buy so-called "details grade" coins to acquire them. This was before the TPGs would put such coins in slabs, so those coins were all raw. Ultimately my half cent variety collection hit a brick wall because I could not add any more varieties. The best known collectors in the field had them, sometimes as multiples, and I lost interest. Until those guys got ready sell, I was shut out unless I cherry picked them, which I did a few times.

    My interests now run toward history and type coins, and not die varieties.

    At rate here are a couple of trimes from my collection. The first one is an 1851-O that is in an MS-63 holder. I have always liked this coin because it is the only trime or any other three cent piece that was truck at a branch mint.

    And here is my Type I trime type coin, an 1852 in MS-66. I have found this type harder to find in attractive Mint State condition because of the 75% silver, 25% copper alloy. These coins seem to pick up an lot of unattractive spots.

    I know that this probably does not jell with what you are looking for in this thread, but it's my contribution. I wrote a history about the silver three cent piece for my local club that I could post, if there is interest.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,870 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Being a Type Collector, I have one 3CS in my collection;

    1854 3CS RPD FS-301


    A couple of the Pick Up Points (PUPS);

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    I am a type collector have been one for about 60 years. I have dabbled with die varieties, but the only time I got serious was with the half cent series. I got up to a variety or two that had a then known population of 20 or fewer pieces, and had to buy so-called "details grade" coins to acquire them. This was before the TPGs would put such coins in slabs, so those coins were all raw. Ultimately my half cent variety collection hit a brick wall because I could not add any more varieties. The best known collectors in the field had them, sometimes as multiples, and I lost interest. Until those guys got ready sell, I was shut out unless I cherry picked them, which I did a few times.

    My interests now run toward history and type coins, and not die varieties.

    At rate here are a couple of trimes from my collection. The first one is an 1851-O that is in an MS-63 holder. I have always liked this coin because it is the only trime or any other three cent piece that was truck at a branch mint.

    And here is my Type I trime type coin, an 1852 in MS-66. I have found this type harder to find in attractive Mint State condition because of the 75% silver, 25% copper alloy. These coins seem to pick up an lot of unattractive spots.

    I know that this probably does not jell with what you are looking for in this thread, but it's my contribution. I wrote a history about the silver three cent piece for my local club that I could post, if there is interest.

    Please be my guest to add anything that contributes to the thread. I appreciate you asking as have been in forums that allow random crapping in the thread as well giving useless advice.
    I thank you sir for your contribution.

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like those little coins, though I do not collect them. As to the question posed in the OP....yes, I would add a details coin if it was not grossly damaged. There was a half dime in another thread, quite nice, with mirror fields, but a dig on the reverse....Well, it was positioned such that it was not damaging the letters...and if I needed one, I would consider it.... at least until an upgrade came along. I have long since stopped doing series, so now, the coin must attract me for condition, design, history... so that issue no longer applies to me directly. Cheers, RickO

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree as again I dont like filling holes in a book...i would like to finish my h-10 collection ,but if I dont the ride was fun.....
    I grew up on the water feet on many a deck, lettered in sailing in college, and in my youth love to skip across the bay....but when I learned to sail ....it taught me how to be a captain ,and dance with the wind, it made the journey more fun then getting there in a fast pace.
    I love to skip across the water, but there's nothing better than sliding thought time and enjoying the ride.

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭



    No brainer <750 known in any grade. Left from a small mintage 139,000.

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

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