93 d Lincoln cent double denomination dime reverse

Josha113n

Im believe i found a double denomination 93 d Penny obverse over dime reverse.

MWallace

Parking lot effect.

MasonG

If it looks like the coin was picked up out of a parking lot, the chances of it being anything special are slim to none.

Just sayin'.

david3142

Hard to tell from these images. Can you provide a few more close-up shots?

Unknown

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CoinCoins

hell of a thread you've got going here, dude.

Unknown

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IkesT

This is a normal cent where the copper coating has been scraped off the reverse, exposing the zinc.

The good news is that it is still worth 1 cent.

Unknown

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lcutler

It is not possible for a coin to have two different planchets in one coin. Explain how this can happen during the minting process. It is a normal damaged cent with solder or something of the sort on the reverse.

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JBK

There is nothing at all to support the OP's hypothesis, which is an impossibility in any case.

Put down the coins and pick up the books (or trusted websites). Time to start learning about the minting process and stop fantasizing that damaged coins are spectacular errors.

Unknown

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JBK

You refuse to learn and you refuse to take the advice of more experienced collectors. There is so much free knowledge here but you fight it off with a stick.

Oh well....

lcutler

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

So just for us folks who aren't nearly as wise as you, explain how a coin can have a dime planchet on one side and a cent planchet on the other. There has to be a way for an error to happen, or plain and simple, it didn't. So how can it happen during the minting process?

Jimnight

Looks like PMD.

FredWeinberg

I’m not even gonna get started.......

jmlanzaf

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

double denomination mules are made from a SINGLE PLANCHET and two mis-paired dies.

Double denomination coins also have the struck images of both coins. Have you noticed that there is no image on the reverse?

Your coin is just a regular Lincoln cent that had the back sheared off. Cents after 1982 are NOT copper, they are copper-plated zinc. You are looking at the Zinc on the back because the copper plating was ground off, either accidentally or on purpose.

I'm sorry to inform you that is nothing but a damaged Lincoln cent.

jmlanzaf

@Josha113n said:
I would respectfully disagree. My images don’t do any justice for me and you can’t see it from my perspective but from getting critiqued up here has made me a bit more disciplined in my verification. I get doubling wrong quite a bit bits is hard to misidentify something so obvious. For instance 2 parts of the l reverse rim that is actually the 5% of the larger obverse being rolled over. Plus the weight checks out

I'm sorry to tell you, respectfully, this isn't even a close case. There is only two ways you could have such a thing:

1. It is struck on a dime planchet which is missing the cladding on the obverse, in which case the coin should be lighter than a dime.
2. You have a highly improbable brockage/die cap in which case the coin should be heavier than a dime.

Although in both of those cases, there would be a coin image on the reverse.

Your coin was rolled over, probably numerous times, by a car in a parking lot.

But, if you are so certain, spend the $50 and get PCGS to verify it. Of course, PCGS's error expert is Fred Weinberg and he's already weighed in.

There is simply no way for your coin to be what you say it is. And, on top of that, it is quite easy to explain what actually did happen to that coin: reverse cladding ground off exposing the zinc center.

jmlanzaf

@lcutler said:

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

So just for us folks who aren't nearly as wise as you, explain how a coin can have a dime planchet on one side and a cent planchet on the other. There has to be a way for an error to happen, or plain and simple, it didn't. So how can it happen during the minting process?

It could happen, though highly improbable, but the weight would be wrong. If a struck Lincoln cent were to create a die cap and then a dime planchet inserted into the press, the two planchets could be struck together. But you would have the combined weight of both planchets. And, you would also have the reverse image struck onto the dime planchet not a smooth reverse.

MarkKelley

You cannot learn by refusing to listen to the teachers. Mr. Weinberg is the top expert on this matter.

yspsales

I promise, you know more about error coins than me.

My advice comes from similar experience trying to learn about cleaned coins. I would buy a NGC or PCGS details coin and try to spot the problem.

Instead of wasting money and time and enormous frustration and rejection looking for error coins... just by the error coin from the expert.

Your path will be so much quicker and more enjoyable. The hunts will start yielding coins you can use to educate us.

ricko

Definitely not an error coin.... Severely damaged cent, nothing more. Cheers, RickO

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WinLoseWin

@FredWeinberg said:
I’m not even gonna get started.......

So, you are saying you need a few more pictures before you can get started.

lcutler

@Josha113n said:
I don’t believe nor do i act like a scholar on the subject. My apologies if i come across that way but in my defense this is a tough crowd that isn’t very welcoming when you aren’t a scholar but as an intellectual i like to state my case before i get shut down. I take all criticism with appreciation because each mistake is a lesson learned and a step closer to attain respect in this community. Believe me when i say I’m here to stay. Trust me im not trying to get on the bad side of the one who set the standard I’m trying to achieve.

Fair enough. First thing you need to do, is forget this coin. Do what an intellectual would do, study, study and study the minting process. You will soon realize why this coin can not be what you think it is. There is so much to learn, I have been doing this for over fifty years and learn more everyday.

JRocco

Imagine this thread in the days of dial up ?

bsshog40

The cent is PMD. But, seeings how you don't believe anyone, throw some money to PCGS so they can tell you the same thing.

Oldhoopster

@jmlanzaf said:

@lcutler said:

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

So just for us folks who aren't nearly as wise as you, explain how a coin can have a dime planchet on one side and a cent planchet on the other. There has to be a way for an error to happen, or plain and simple, it didn't. So how can it happen during the minting process?

It could happen, though highly improbable, but the weight would be wrong. If a struck Lincoln cent were to create a die cap and then a dime planchet inserted into the press, the two planchets could be struck together. But you would have the combined weight of both planchets. And, you would also have the reverse image struck onto the dime planchet not a smooth reverse.

I'm glad you cleared that up.

jmlanzaf

@Oldhoopster said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@lcutler said:

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

So just for us folks who aren't nearly as wise as you, explain how a coin can have a dime planchet on one side and a cent planchet on the other. There has to be a way for an error to happen, or plain and simple, it didn't. So how can it happen during the minting process?

It could happen, though highly improbable, but the weight would be wrong. If a struck Lincoln cent were to create a die cap and then a dime planchet inserted into the press, the two planchets could be struck together. But you would have the combined weight of both planchets. And, you would also have the reverse image struck onto the dime planchet not a smooth reverse.

I'm glad you cleared that up.

The mint had engaged in stranger shenanigans. Look at the TWO 1941 Canadian silver quarters that somehow got used as clad planchets in 1970.

ctf_error_coins

@FredWeinberg said:
I’m not even gonna get started.......

have fun guys

Oldhoopster

@jmlanzaf said:

@Oldhoopster said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@lcutler said:

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

So just for us folks who aren't nearly as wise as you, explain how a coin can have a dime planchet on one side and a cent planchet on the other. There has to be a way for an error to happen, or plain and simple, it didn't. So how can it happen during the minting process?

It could happen, though highly improbable, but the weight would be wrong. If a struck Lincoln cent were to create a die cap and then a dime planchet inserted into the press, the two planchets could be struck together. But you would have the combined weight of both planchets. And, you would also have the reverse image struck onto the dime planchet not a smooth reverse.

I'm glad you cleared that up.

The mint had engaged in stranger shenanigans. Look at the TWO Canadian silver quarters that somehow got used as clad planchets.

As well as the 70-S quarter struck over a Barber quarter. There have been errors that were snuck out of the Philly Mint (in the oil pan of a fork truck, I believe). But what does that have to do with the OP's coin?

I'm not disagreeing with your comment. The scenarios you list could occur (however improbable) and you provided info on how to confirm them. But arere you suggesting members should post all of the possible scenarios, regardless of the likelihood, when they respond to a question?

I think the generalization that @ldhair posted was an acceptable response. No sense in confusing a new collector with extremely low probability events. Just my opinion.

BTW: do you know of any instances of a dime planchet entering a cent striking chamber that has a capped die? Technically, I suppose it's possible, but.....

silverpop

let me be blunt and simple ok

you have a post mint damaged coin nothing more, nothing less worth one cent if you are lucky

Oldhoopster

@Josha113n

Hopefully, one thing you should take away from this thread is the key to identifying true errors and varieties is understanding the minting and die making process. The more you know, the less time you'll waste on damaged coins, but takes time.

Many of the responses on here are from members that are extremely knowledgeable of the minting process. One is considered the top authority in his field. That's like getting an MIT physics professor to help you with your algebra homework.

Here are some links to help you get started

https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-the-mint/how-coins-are-made-coin-production-terminology

https://www.doubleddie.com (click on the "how dies are made" tab on the left)

Hope this helps

BTW: I agree with the others. There is absolutely no way your coin left the mint in that condition.

coinbuf

Let me just add please in the future forget about the 10 thousand microscope photos, one in focus cropped photo of each side is usually enough.

JBK

And as for that theoretical die cap scenario....

Wouldn't the obverse die cap part have extreme rims/edges from the formation of the cap?

Even if we concocted every split planchet combined with multiple planchet in the striking position scenario, it still wouldn't look like this coin.

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lcutler

Off the top of my head, I am pretty sure it is Italian. Victor Emanuel II possibly?

JBK

@lcutler said:
Off the top of my head, I am pretty sure it is Italian. Victor Emanuel II possibly?

I probably have to disagree but your guess helped put the designs into perspective for me.

France 10 centimes, years in the 1850s through 1860s or so.

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jmlanzaf

@Oldhoopster said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Oldhoopster said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@lcutler said:

@Josha113n said:
Explain how double denomination mule coins are made then? 🤔 no disrespect but I’ve only been at this for 4 months but i know little something and the helpful ones up here schooled me about a little bit

So just for us folks who aren't nearly as wise as you, explain how a coin can have a dime planchet on one side and a cent planchet on the other. There has to be a way for an error to happen, or plain and simple, it didn't. So how can it happen during the minting process?

It could happen, though highly improbable, but the weight would be wrong. If a struck Lincoln cent were to create a die cap and then a dime planchet inserted into the press, the two planchets could be struck together. But you would have the combined weight of both planchets. And, you would also have the reverse image struck onto the dime planchet not a smooth reverse.

I'm glad you cleared that up.

The mint had engaged in stranger shenanigans. Look at the TWO Canadian silver quarters that somehow got used as clad planchets.

As well as the 70-S quarter struck over a Barber quarter. There have been errors that were snuck out of the Philly Mint (in the oil pan of a fork truck, I believe). But what does that have to do with the OP's coin?

I'm not disagreeing with your comment. The scenarios you list could occur (however improbable) and you provided info on how to confirm them. But arere you suggesting members should post all of the possible scenarios, regardless of the likelihood, when they respond to a question?

I think the generalization that @ldhair posted was an acceptable response. No sense in confusing a new collector with extremely low probability events. Just my opinion.

BTW: do you know of any instances of a dime planchet entering a cent striking chamber that has a capped die? Technically, I suppose it's possible, but.....

Call me a stickler for details. I think we can all agree that the OP's coin is NOT what he thinks. But to say it is "impossible" can mislead people and also doesn't provide the information that someone other than the OP could use to diagnose the problem. It could also come across to the OP as being dismissive and ignorant since no details are provided.

Members didn't need to list all the possible scenarios. But given what the OP was claiming, it really wasn't that hard to either take an affirmative argument: Your coin is light because of the missing back and you're looking at the Zinc. Or, you could rule out the "planchet fusing/muling" with the weight.

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:
And as for that theoretical die cap scenario....

Wouldn't the obverse die cap part have extreme rims/edges from the formation of the cap?

Even if we concocted every split planchet combined with multiple planchet in the striking position scenario, it still wouldn't look like this coin.

Hell yes. But the point is that the ONLY way for the OP to get what he thinks he has is to have a coin of the WRONG weight, not the correct weight.

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:

@lcutler said:
Off the top of my head, I am pretty sure it is Italian. Victor Emanuel II possibly?

I probably have to disagree but your guess helped put the designs into perspective for me.

France 10 centimes, years in the 1850s through 1860s or so.

Yes, the goatee is a dead giveaway...

MsMorrisine

I have a file. perhaps I can duplicate the cent's damage sometime soon (call me lazy)

Attumra

Looks like a magician coin to me! Look it up my first coin that got me back into collecting after years was one of these penny/dime mixed very old but not worth much over $30sih maybe, But I thought I had a super rare thing, I was wrong lol. 90% of the people here are giving you good advice, some are experts in this field. Gl on your search's.

jmlanzaf

Looks like a magician coin to me! Look it up my first coin that got me back into collecting after years was one of these penny/dime mixed very old but not worth much over $30sih maybe, But I thought I had a super rare thing, I was wrong lol. 90% of the people here are giving you good advice, some are experts in this field. Gl on your search's.

@Attumra said:
Looks like a magician coin to me! Look it up my first coin that got me back into collecting after years was one of these penny/dime mixed very old but not worth much over $30sih maybe, But I thought I had a super rare thing, I was wrong lol. 90% of the people here are giving you good advice, some are experts in this field. Gl on your search's.

I've never seen a magician coin with a blank reverse. Or maybe you mean it is half of a magician's coin?

daltex

@Josha113n said:
The silhouette matches. It’s very smooth and thin

I don't know, but I'm sure someone wants it for a Lowball set.

Tony_Lassitter

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575378759&campid=5338273189&customid=&icep_item=124643832199&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&toolid=11111

ifthevamzarockin

@Tony_Lassitter

Spamming your auctions on other members posts is real low class.
Especially when you are trying to pawn of a junk 1916 dime as a D mint.
You earned a place on my blocked bidder list.

JBK

Agree. A real stupid move. No one will bid, but he will get himself banned here.

Namvet69

Holy cow! What just happened? Buh bye. Peace Roy