My start in coin collecting and biting off more than I can chew

Thrindal

I got my start in the mid 1980's. My father gave me a loose box of coins with a cool story. His father, while doing renovations to their home in the 30's opened up a wall and in the wall was a jar of coins. He eventually passed these on to my father and my uncle who split them up.

I loved looking them over and put the nicer ones in capsules myself. Over time they would get put away for long periods and taken out and revisited again. I then decided I wanted to see if I could get some graded (honestly dealing with coin dealers in my area has not been fun) the first dealer said only two coins were worth grading. They happened to be the two coins I thought were the best as well so that was good. The first was an 1892-CC Morgan, worn but still nice details. It came back as a VF20 but it is a beautiful coin (at least to me).

I love the patina and honestly I prefer circulated coins and imagining the pockets they have been in and the purchases made. To me wear adds to the beauty.

The second coin was always my favorite and this one has brought me down a rabbit hole. The coin is an 1853 Seated Half. To my surprise the coin graded better than expected and turned out to be a DDO variety.

I love the DDO because it is almost visible to the naked eye and only requires minimal magnification to see.

Again, not a perfect coin but it is my favorite and likely always will be.

My issue with dealers that I have dealt with is they don't listen. I had several other coins, most were not great but I had a couple of Seated Quarters, a Dime, and a Half Dime I wanted graded. The dealers I worked with kept telling me it wasn't worth it, one even tried to tell me they were junk silver (sorry seated anything is never junk silver). I finally went in and just told one to grade them. They asked why and I told them "I want the provenance of a grade, sure they will probably only be worth about $100 each after grading but I would rather pay the grading price then spend a $100+ to buy a graded coin" They came back as expected except the dime came back as an AU50 which was far better than expected. I understand the coin shops would rather sell me a coin, problem is the shops I have visited only carry coins far out of my price range.

Now the rabbit hole, I want to finish a PCGS Basic Seated Liberty type set. I just found a lower graded 20 Cent piece but I still need to get a $1 and a Trade Dollar. With my means these are going to be difficult. My hope is to finish the set with lower graded examples until an opportunity comes where I could afford a better graded example which may never happen looking at prices. I think I should be able to swing a Trade Dollar eventually but the Seated Dollar is elusive in my price range.

Thanks for reading

asheland

Nice coins! Welcome to the forums.

WQuarterFreddie

@Thrindal said:
I got my start in the mid 1980's. My father gave me a loose box of coins with a cool story. His father, while doing renovations to their home in the 30's opened up a wall and in the wall was a jar of coins. He eventually passed these on to my father and my uncle who split them up.

I loved looking them over and put the nicer ones in capsules myself. Over time they would get put away for long periods and taken out and revisited again. I then decided I wanted to see if I could get some graded (honestly dealing with coin dealers in my area has not been fun) the first dealer said only two coins were worth grading. They happened to be the two coins I thought were the best as well so that was good. The first was an 1892-CC Morgan, worn but still nice details. It came back as a VF20 but it is a beautiful coin (at least to me).

I love the patina and honestly I prefer circulated coins and imagining the pockets they have been in and the purchases made. To me wear adds to the beauty.

The second coin was always my favorite and this one has brought me down a rabbit hole. The coin is an 1853 Seated Half. To my surprise the coin graded better than expected and turned out to be a DDO variety.

I love the DDO because it is almost visible to the naked eye and only requires minimal magnification to see.

Again, not a perfect coin but it is my favorite and likely always will be.

My issue with dealers that I have dealt with is they don't listen. I had several other coins, most were not great but I had a couple of Seated Quarters, a Dime, and a Half Dime I wanted graded. The dealers I worked with kept telling me it wasn't worth it, one even tried to tell me they were junk silver (sorry seated anything is never junk silver). I finally went in and just told one to grade them. They asked why and I told them "I want the provenance of a grade, sure they will probably only be worth about $100 each after grading but I would rather pay the grading price then spend a $100+ to buy a graded coin" They came back as expected except the dime came back as an AU50 which was far better than expected. I understand the coin shops would rather sell me a coin, problem is the shops I have visited only carry coins far out of my price range.

Now the rabbit hole, I want to finish a PCGS Basic Seated Liberty type set. I just found a lower graded 20 Cent piece but I still need to get a $1 and a Trade Dollar. With my means these are going to be difficult. My hope is to finish the set with lower graded examples until an opportunity comes where I could afford a better graded example which may never happen looking at prices. I think I should be able to swing a Trade Dollar eventually but the Seated Dollar is elusive in my price range.

Thanks for reading

Awesome story and welcome to the forum! As a newer coin collector myself I had similar experiences with the owners of my local coin shops and many of the sellers at trade shows. Never understood why they are rude to potential customers.🤔

I quickly learned to ignore those type of individuals and not do business with them. Eventually I found a few that were nice and willing to teach me the basics and were willing to listen to my interests as well.

I am happy to hear you stuck it out and took control of what you wanted to do with your coins and that you got better grades than you expected which is always a plus!

Regarding the forum, you may have the same type of experience. We have many nice and helpful members but a few that are best to ignore.

In fact I recently learned that there is an ignore feature that you can activate on any member you find offensive or just not worth your time to read their posts. It has helped me enjoy the forum so much more! Also, those individuals have a tendency to post quite often so now I don't have to see their posts which makes for faster reading as well! 🤣😂

Good luck with your quest to complete your collection!😎

Elmhurst

Keep trying to find someone who wants to work with you, these days it will probably have to be via the internet. Also, watch out on raw seated coinage, there's a lot out there that has been cleaned and not identified as such. If it's a light cleaning, it can be difficult to notice. I was burnt on this when I started collecting these.

MasonG

@Thrindal said:
My issue with dealers that I have dealt with is they don't listen. I had several other coins, most were not great but I had a couple of Seated Quarters, a Dime, and a Half Dime I wanted graded. The dealers I worked with kept telling me it wasn't worth it...

People often post here about wanting to have their coins graded and are advised to have someone look them over to see if it's worth doing. Any dealer who offers to review coins prior to grading ends up explaining to people that it's not financially practical to grade some coins, as you have found out. They're only trying to save you from spending more on grading than the coins themselves are worth. If you want to go ahead anyway, most will accommodate you if you explain your reason for doing so.

yspsales

Awesome start IMHO.

Keep at it and keep learning.

You are a collector so don't worry about grading costs or ROI for coins YOU like.

Find dealers you can trust.

Most dealers are generalists.

Learn a series or specialize and you will often know more than the dealer.

ANA has good seminars at major shows that are very helpful.

astrorat

Welcome. Your 92-CC Morgan is a lovely coin.

Namvet69

Howdy, your CC is really nice and in a holder. Peace Roy

patrickahearnesq

Welcome. I am shocked your local shops/dealers have been so hostile. I am in my mid-30s and when I started attending shows about 5 years ago, one of the local dealers in particular was extremely nice to me, I would sit down and talk to him for hours at a coin show in between customers and just hang out at his shop. We do disagree on some grading related stuff and prices from time to time but we are still great friends. He's in his 60s, I'm 34. For the most part, I've noticed the older guys being the total opposite than you have described. The majority of them need/want the younger collectors to get involved as their generation is aging out.

MetroD

@MasonG said:

@Thrindal said:
My issue with dealers that I have dealt with is they don't listen. I had several other coins, most were not great but I had a couple of Seated Quarters, a Dime, and a Half Dime I wanted graded. The dealers I worked with kept telling me it wasn't worth it...

People often post here about wanting to have their coins graded and are advised to have someone look them over to see if it's worth doing. Any dealer who offers to review coins prior to grading ends up explaining to people that it's not financially practical to grade some coins, as you have found out. They're only trying to save you from spending more on grading than the coins themselves are worth. If you want to go ahead anyway, most will accommodate you if you explain your reason for doing so.

This.

Another option is to submit the coins yourself via the PCGS Collectors Club (i.e., direct submission privileges).

calgolddiver

welcome to the forum and great examples you have shared with us. Check the BST (Buy Sell Trade) forum ... always something available that could provide what you need. 20 cent probably tougher to find. Good Luck with your quest !!

GoldenEgg

Great introductory post! It sounds like you know what you’re doing and the dealers may have just been trying to help, as I am sure many of their customers don’t understand the coin game as well as you. Hope you stick around!

divecchia

Great story and congrats on eventually getting your pieces graded. It's not always about the money and if you explain that to the dealer and how much the pieces mean to you (sentimental value) I'm sure most would do it.

Good luck getting your couple of pieces to finish the Seated Liberty set.

Donato

SanctionII

Welcome and great story plus nice coins.

Have fun participating in the hobby.

Thrindal

@MasonG said:

@Thrindal said:
My issue with dealers that I have dealt with is they don't listen. I had several other coins, most were not great but I had a couple of Seated Quarters, a Dime, and a Half Dime I wanted graded. The dealers I worked with kept telling me it wasn't worth it...

People often post here about wanting to have their coins graded and are advised to have someone look them over to see if it's worth doing. Any dealer who offers to review coins prior to grading ends up explaining to people that it's not financially practical to grade some coins, as you have found out. They're only trying to save you from spending more on grading than the coins themselves are worth. If you want to go ahead anyway, most will accommodate you if you explain your reason for doing so

I totally agree, my thing was I had one dealer who didn't even bother to use a loop to look at the coins, another said they thought they had all been cleaned. That was one reason I went with the one dealer and only submitted 2 coins to start. I knew I had not cleaned them but I didn't know if my father or my grandfather or anyone else had ever tried to clean them. When they came back graded I was confident anything else I had from that collection would grade. I did hold back one Half Dime that had a very significant scratch but otherwise graded the seated coins.

I have another Morgan I could grade but it is pretty common and I would rather focus on my Seated collection.

AuldFartte

@Thrindal ! Enjoy collecting!

Thrindal

@Elmhurst said:
Keep trying to find someone who wants to work with you, these days it will probably have to be via the internet. Also, watch out on raw seated coinage, there's a lot out there that has been cleaned and not identified as such. If it's a light cleaning, it can be difficult to notice. I was burnt on this when I started collecting these.

Absolutely, that is both a reason for me wanting to get the coins I had graded (they were handed down and not purchased) and why I only buy graded coins, especially if I am dealing over the internet. I am very glad all the Seated I was gifted, except one Half-Dime which was severely scratched and didn't bother submitting, came back with good grades.

Same with Pennies, I would not touch an ungraded penny of any type. Way too many variables and issues with pennies. I may do a small Penny collection though because they are far more affordable then the Seated Liberties I am looking for.

Thanks

291fifth

Your 1892-CC dollar is a very eye-appealing coin for the grade. The 1853 Arrows & Rays half is very presentable. The coins you need are not rare or particularly expensive. Attend a major coin show when one is near where you live and you should be able to find what you need in your price range. Be picky and learn to make your own decisions. Don't rely on dealers you don't know. Study this site. There is a great deal of good information to be found on it.

Thrindal

@WQuarterFreddie said:

Awesome story and welcome to the forum! As a newer coin collector myself I had similar experiences with the owners of my local coin shops and many of the sellers at trade shows. Never understood why they are rude to potential customers.🤔

I quickly learned to ignore those type of individuals and not do business with them. Eventually I found a few that were nice and willing to teach me the basics and were willing to listen to my interests as well.

I am happy to hear you stuck it out and took control of what you wanted to do with your coins and that you got better grades than you expected which is always a plus!

Regarding the forum, you may have the same type of experience. We have many nice and helpful members but a few that are best to ignore.

In fact I recently learned that there is an ignore feature that you can activate on any member you find offensive or just not worth your time to read their posts. It has helped me enjoy the forum so much more! Also, those individuals have a tendency to post quite often so now I don't have to see their posts which makes for faster reading as well! 🤣😂

Good luck with your quest to complete your collection!😎

Unfortunately I have found most online groups have their share of poisonous individuals, folks that would never say to your face what they are willing to say while hiding behind a computer screen. Folks can be critical without being mean and poisonous.

Thanks for the heads up, I am sure the ignore feature will come in handy.

skier07

Welcome!

Why don’t you become a PCGS member and just submit your coins directly?

Zoins

@Thrindal said:
I love the DDO because it is almost visible to the naked eye and only requires minimal magnification to see.

Congrats on your coins! They look great.

DDO means Double Die Obverse so yours is a DDR (Reverse) as mentioned on the slab.

But from looking at this, I can't tell where the doubling as I'm not an expert on this series. Can someone point it out?

panexpoguy

Welcome to the board. As long as the results of your actions are worth it in your heart, then you didn't waste your money. You have protected the coins for the future and your family will have the story to tell well into the future. Dealers think of coins as a product first because they make a living buying and selling. As others have said, begin the conversation advising that you don't care if you get your money back out of certain coins. If the dealer was/is a collector, he/she will understand and help you with your request. And don't sell yourself short, perseverance can make many things attainable.

divecchia

@Zoins It looks like UNITED is doubled. I think you can really see it on the letter "T".

Donato

Thrindal

@Zoins said:

@Thrindal said:
I love the DDO because it is almost visible to the naked eye and only requires minimal magnification to see.

Congrats on your coins! They look great.

DDO means Double Die Obverse so yours is a DDR (Reverse) as mentioned on the slab.

But from looking at this, I can't tell where the doubling as I'm not an expert on this series. Can someone point it out?

Your absolutely right, DDR, my bad. In the picture it is in the word United. Most visible in the N and the top of the T but present in all the letters. The doubling continues through the word States as well.

Thrindal

@skier07 said:
Welcome!

Why don’t you become a PCGS member and just submit your coins directly?

For me it is too expensive because I doubt I will have any more raw coins I want graded. I will likely just be buying graded coins. Unless I come into some random collection or find some coins in my travels I don't see needing to submit more coins.

WQuarterFreddie

@patrickahearnesq said:
Welcome. I am shocked your local shops/dealers have been so hostile. I am in my mid-30s and when I started attending shows about 5 years ago, one of the local dealers in particular was extremely nice to me, I would sit down and talk to him for hours at a coin show in between customers and just hang out at his shop. We do disagree on some grading related stuff and prices from time to time but we are still great friends. He's in his 60s, I'm 34. For the most part, I've noticed the older guys being the total opposite than you have described. The majority of them need/want the younger collectors to get involved as their generation is aging out.

I think you got lucky! 😎

Thrindal

@291fifth said:
Your 1892-CC dollar is a very eye-appealing coin for the grade. The 1853 Arrows & Rays half is very presentable. The coins you need are not rare or particularly expensive. Attend a major coin show when one is near where you live and you should be able to find what you need in your price range. Be picky and learn to make your own decisions. Don't rely on dealers you don't know. Study this site. There is a great deal of good information to be found on it.

I agree with your assessment. The 1892-CC has a really nice look to it. The patina/toning on the 1853 A&R isn't quite as nice but I like the history of the Seated Liberty coinage as a whole and while the 1853 isn't hard to come buy it is a very important year in the history of the coinage. All those temporary changes to the coin to signify a few grains less silver is really neat IMO.

BryceM

Cool story. Nice coins. Thanks for sharing.

There are always a few toxic people in any group and dealers are no exception. Just keep looking and find some good ones. They’re out there. Be picky. Wait for the right coins. You’ll find them.

WAYNEAS

First, welcome aboard @Thrindal
Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
Your coins are really nice and the pictures are great also.
Your story is articulate and to the point, plus it holds one's attention.
Long posts are sometimes hard to read in its entirety. Yours is not.
There is enough information to be gathered on this forum from very knowledgeable people.
I learn something new here at least once a week.
Wayne

carabonnair

Welcome, and thanks for your excellent introduction story!
If seated liberty coinage is a main interest of yours, you might like Gerry Fortin's site. https://www.seateddimevarieties.com/index.htm
While a lot of his coins (well, most) are out of my range and interest, it costs nothing to look and you can learn a lot. He also writes a daily blog.

Thrindal

@carabonnair said:
Welcome, and thanks for your excellent introduction story!
If seated liberty coinage is a main interest of yours, you might like Gerry Fortin's site. https://www.seateddimevarieties.com/index.htm
While a lot of his coins (well, most) are out of my range and interest, it costs nothing to look and you can learn a lot. He also writes a daily blog.

Great link, thanks! I would say 99% of his inventory is out of my range as well although is my interest.

yspsales

If the sentimental value is less on the other coins...

Sell them and finish your Type set.

Just an great start!

Well done sir!

koynekwest

Welcome!

vplite99

Welcome aboard. You will find that coin dealers represent the broad spectrum of humanity, from kind and helpful to total A-oles.

Pnies20

Very cool!

crazyhounddog

Very nice 👍 I like em .
Welcome 😊

Swampboy

joeykoins

Welcome to the forum. Wow, your story is awesome and your choice to submit the coins are a real treat. To you, I'm sure, and us who read your op. Boy, those guys. I know, they probably meant well, but they should of explained it better to you. I tell ya, you ought to see my coins (from my Dad), that I sent in? Lol. I'd like to see the face on your dealer if he ever knew I wanted my coins graded. Lol. Whatever reason for anybody wanting to submit a coin. That is entirely up to him/her. Don't ever let anyone talk you out of submitting a coin/s. Of course, if the exception is quite warranted, that's different. Beautiful coins you have.
Love the CC's. -Joey

mannie gray

@Thrindal
Cool coins, nice write up.
I enjoyed reading it.
I agree with you about the pleasing look of some circulated coins.
Your 92-CC is the perfect example.

ricko

@Thrindal .... Welcome aboard.... Interesting story and nice coins. The DDR was a pleasant surprise indeed. Good luck in your pursuits, it is a great hobby, and this is a great forum, likely the best coin forum on the net. Cheers, RickO

Gazes

Enjoyed your post. I think having a coin you like graded always makes sense. 1st it is an education to see what professional graders think--that is worth something. Also, a slab protects the coin from mishandling and the environment and that is worth something. Thanks for your thread

Thrindal

@Gazes said:
Enjoyed your post. I think having a coin you like graded always makes sense. 1st it is an education to see what professional graders think--that is worth something. Also, a slab protects the coin from mishandling and the environment and that is worth something. Thanks for your thread

And from anyone finding my "dirty" coins and deciding to clean/polish them!

Thrindal

@joeykoins said:
Welcome to the forum. Wow, your story is awesome and your choice to submit the coins are a real treat. To you, I'm sure, and us who read your op. Boy, those guys. I know, they probably meant well, but they should of explained it better to you. I tell ya, you ought to see my coins (from my Dad), that I sent in? Lol. I'd like to see the face on your dealer if he ever knew I wanted my coins graded. Lol. Whatever reason for anybody wanting to submit a coin. That is entirely up to him/her. Don't ever let anyone talk you out of submitting a coin/s. Of course, if the exception is quite warranted, that's different. Beautiful coins you have.
Love the CC's. -Joey

Are those birthdates or something? Fairly modern graffiti for old coins. I assume your dad did the graffiti and it had some meaning to him and I am sure you now.

joeykoins

Hi. Yeah thanks for asking. I told my story many times. In my family, my parents had 5 kids. 3 boys and two girls. My father, when each one of us were born, he would self engrave silver dollars for all us kids. He carved our names and DOB. I'm the oldest and the only one into coins. So I thought I would provide a tribute to my Dad by having his coins certified and in the PCGS holders for safe keeping. Luckily, our host obliged. Also, I requested for the title, "Dad's Dollar" be placed on the slabs. They came through. They're awesome! Unfortunately, two of my siblings have passed. Along with both my parents. One of my sisters and one of my brothers. So, along with my Dollar, and my two deceased siblings. I have the three in the holders. The other two, I'm trying to get my brother and sister, to join in with their Dollars too. Thanks once again. Your great story, thanks, made me think of my Dad's Dollars! Lol

oih82w8

@Thrindal those are a really nice start to a Seated Type Set Collection! "To my surprise the coin graded better than expected and turned out to be a DDO variety" Did you know that the 1853 50C was a recognized DDR when you submitted it? Or did your submitter recognize it? I would find it highly suspect if it was identified by our host and was not requested, especially a FS-801. Variety attribution on a minor variety costs Service Price + $18.

RYK

This is exactly how coin collecting begins. Where it ends, you never know.

Thrindal

@oih82w8 said:
@Thrindal those are a really nice start to a Seated Type Set Collection! "To my surprise the coin graded better than expected and turned out to be a DDO variety" Did you know that the 1853 50C was a recognized DDR when you submitted it? Or did your submitter recognize it? I would find it highly suspect if it was identified by our host and was not requested, especially a FS-801. Variety attribution on a minor variety costs Service Price + $18.

So the story on this kind of extends my story from above but I will keep it brief.

The first dealer I went two saw the DDR but convinced me to not submit for attribution because they thought the coin was likely cleaned and the variety would not bring sufficient added value. As I said before, not only did it come back graded the dealer was shocked by the grade.

A couple years later I decided to get the quarters and dimes from my fathers collection graded and when I did I asked the dealer to submit the half for the attribution (not to be regraded). They tried to convince me it wasn't worth it because the coin is what it is regardless of attribution, if it is a DDR its a DDR. I said to submit it, and he wouldn't even look at the coin to confirm the attribution, he just confirmed that was what I thought it was. Goes along with my string of poor experiences with dealers.

So yes a dealer caught it but it took my persistence over a couple of years to get the coin graded and fully attributed. PCGS does not just give attributions for free, and if you ask for the wrong attribution they won't correct it for you either.

oih82w8

Actually...PCGS does attribute Major varieties for free...if they are listed in the Red Book.

Die Varieties would require the $18 attribution fee.

An example of the Seated Liberty Half Dollar 1855/54 would be attributed for no extra cost, since it is listed as a Major Variety in PCGS CoinFacts. The 1855/54 50C WB-102 Arr Overdate FS-301 would cost the submitter $18 to have this attributed as such.

It can get confusing.