Has anything ever been documented as to why the Mint did not strike 40% SMS 10c & 25c?

braddick

The SMS coins of 1965, 1966, and 1967 each contain 40% silver Kennedy halves. This we know. I wonder why, though, as these were limited and specially struck coins for collectors, why the dime and quarter were also not minted on 40% silver planchets? I'd be curious to read any articles as to why yet have not located anything so far.
Any speculation on your part?

CaptHenway

That composition was never authorized for those denominations. Simple as that.

TurtleCat

What is curious is why they even bothered with 40% silver for the half at all.

CaptHenway

@TurtleCat said:
What is curious is why they even bothered with 40% silver for the half at all.

A political compromise to get the Coinage Act of 1965 passed. We needed the copper-nickel clad dime and quarter for everyday commerce, and the half dollar was expendable.

jmlanzaf

This was not that unusual for the time period. As the silver left the coinage for multiple countries, it was common to either debase the silver or remove the silver or both. Some countries, the UK for example, started doing this in the post-WWI period. Others started doing it in the post-WWII period. It continued into the early 1970s. A lot of commonwealth countries kept the larger crown-size coins in sterling or debased silver into the 1970s. Look at the Ike $s in the U.S.

The silver tended to leave the smaller denominations first.

IkesT

@braddick said:
The SMS coins of 1965, 1966, and 1967 each contain 40% silver Kennedy halves. This we know. I wonder why, though, as these were limited and specially struck coins for collectors, why the dime and quarter were also not minted on 40% silver planchets? I'd be curious to read any articles as to why yet have not located anything so far.
Any speculation on your part?

All half dollars from 1965-1970 were struck in 40% silver - business strike, SMS and proof. All dimes and quarters from that same period were copper-nickel clad. In other words, the composition of the SMS coins is the same as the business strike and proof coins from that same period.

JBK

Agree.

40% was not a special composition for the SMS set.

It was the normal composition for the half dollar.

1630Boston

How about this @braddick Not enough silver to do it.

From Page -97- of Annual Report of the Director of the Mint Fiscal Year June 60, 1965

The new half dollar was designed with the strong desire in mind of many Americans to retain some silver in our everyday coinage. We believe that by eliminating silver from use in the dime and the quarter, we will have enough silver to carry out market operations in protection of our existing silver coinage—and to make a half dollar of 40 percent silver content. It is clear and unmistakable that we would not have enough silver to extend this to the dime and quarter: they are heavily used, indispensable coins that we must have at all times in large quantity. We are convinced that we can include a 40-percent silver half dollar in the new coinage, but we cannot safely go beyond that. As a precaution, we intend to concentrate at first on getting out large quantities of the new quarter and dime before we embark upon quantity production of the new half dollar.

1630Boston

That was from
Annual Report of the Director of the Mint Fiscal Year June 60, 1965

here's a link to a 'searchable' copy of the report
https://archive.org/details/annualreportofdi1965unit/page/84/mode/2up?q=40%

braddick

Hey, that's great! Thanks for the link to a terrific article.

1630Boston

@braddick et al

The Newman numismatic portal has a wealth of info once you learn how to search it.

https://nnp.wustl.edu/

Cameonut

Our goobermint at work. Simple as that.

1630Boston

Simple as that, not enough silver at the mint for 40% coins. ?
But they had enough the year before for 90% coins ?

ricko

Ah the bureaucratic machinations of our government.... It was a sad time in my collecting life when they ceased silver coinage. Having grown up with silver quarters, dimes and halves, it seemed like a violation of the public trust. When I got the first clad coins, I was disgusted. I still do not like them. Cheers, RickO

BillJones

I wrote a paper about this when I was in college. The original proposal was that all of the coins were going to be copper-nickel clad. The silver producing states argued for the 40% silver option for all of the coins. They wanted to keep the 90%, but that was not possible. The 40% silver half dollar was the compromise. I read minutes from the Congressional Record to find that information.

The_Dinosaur_Man

I wonder if the half dollar would have maintained status as a circulating coin better had it been dropped to Copper-Nickel immediately in 1965, or if the Quarter and Dime were only reduced to 40% during the same time period. In theory, all three should have been dropped to Copper-Nickel and 90% silver used in the annual mint and proof sets.

1630Boston

Great info @BillJones
thanks

braddick

Thanks for the added info. Sounds like some Mint shenanigans back in the mid-sixties.

BuffaloIronTail

@1630Boston said:
How about this @braddick Not enough silver to do it.

From Page -97- of Annual Report of the Director of the Mint Fiscal Year June 60, 1965

The new half dollar was designed with the strong desire in mind of many Americans to retain some silver in our everyday coinage. We believe that by eliminating silver from use in the dime and the quarter, we will have enough silver to carry out market operations in protection of our existing silver coinage—and to make a half dollar of 40 percent silver content. It is clear and unmistakable that we would not have enough silver to extend this to the dime and quarter: they are heavily used, indispensable coins that we must have at all times in large quantity. We are convinced that we can include a 40-percent silver half dollar in the new coinage, but we cannot safely go beyond that. As a precaution, we intend to concentrate at first on getting out large quantities of the new quarter and dime before we embark upon quantity production of the new half dollar.

There cannot be a better explanation than what you posted, Mr. Boston.

HIP HIP CHEERIO!

Pete

CaptHenway

@braddick said:
Thanks for the added info. Sounds like some Mint shenanigans back in the mid-sixties.

Actually, the Mint was incredibly scrupulous in following the laws as they were written. This is why they could not have put 40% silver in the dimes and quarters going into the SMS sets just to make a more interesting numismatic product. It would have been illegal. If there were any shenanigans going on, it was among the people writing the laws.

For an excellent history of the era see Roger Burdette's "Private Pattern and Related Pieces. International Nickel & Gould Incorporated." I was proud to make a few contributions to the book.

TD

braddick

Thanks for that. I also include all of the "errors" that appeared- especially so for Lincoln cents- that appear to have had a bit of help within the Mint.

RedStorm

@The_Dinosaur_Man said:
I wonder if the half dollar would have maintained status as a circulating coin better had it been dropped to Copper-Nickel immediately in 1965, or if the Quarter and Dime were only reduced to 40% during the same time period. In theory, all three should have been dropped to Copper-Nickel and 90% silver used in the annual mint and proof sets.

I’ve wondered that too. Hard to imagine today, but generally speaking, the half dollar was actively and commonly circulated from the beginning of the republic to the 1950s. The change to the Kennedy design made halves a collectible memento of the slain president and the 40% silver added to the view that they were more valuable as a keepsake then for commerce. By the time silver was removed in 1971, it was too late, the half dollar’s time as a circulating coin had passed.

I think it was more the Kennedy design than the 40% silver that killed the half. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if the Kennedy design had replaced the Washington quarter as originally proposed, how would that have changed quarter dollar and half dollar circulation in the late 60s and beyond?

johnny9434

Knowledge is good here 🙂

Treashunt

Congress did not approve.

That is all.

DrDarryl

@braddick said:
The SMS coins of 1965, 1966, and 1967 each contain 40% silver Kennedy halves.... why the dime and quarter were also not minted on 40% silver planchets?

Public law 89-8 (Coinage Act of 1965). Note the requirements for the half dollar (mentions a core of alloy silver and copper). The quarter and dime lacks the mention of silver.

The half dollar is to weigh 11.5 grams and be composed of 4.6 grams silver and 6.9 grams copper.

4.6 grams/11.5 grams = .40 or 40% silver.

1630Boston

@DrDarryl said:

Public law 89-8 (Coinage Act of 1965). Note the requirements for the half dollar (mentions a core of alloy silver and copper). The quarter and dime lacks the mention of silver.

perhaps that was after the Director of the Mint said "we will have enough silver to carry out market operations in protection of our existing silver coinage—and to make a half dollar of 40 percent silver content. It is clear and unmistakable that we would not have enough silver to extend this to the dime and quarter"

privatecoin

Greedy, evil, crooked politicians is why.