Agreed. Chuck Howley and Tommy Nobis are 2 others.
I remember a few years ago when I realized Tommy Nobis wasn't in the HOF. I had always just assumed that he was. I can only assume that it was playing for a terrible team that kept him out.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
@jay0791 said:
Does Pete Rose need another category?
Not HOF but shot themselves in the foot
add Hal Chase to this list
Oliva
Sweet Lou
Rusty Staub
Minoso
Either Chase was nowhere near as good as his reputation, or he shot himself in the foot really, really badly. I offer no opinion on which the truth is, but note that his career numbers put him beyond both the first and second tier "Hall of Very Good."
NHL-wise: Bernie Nichols, Pat Verbeek and Theo Fleury come to mind.
Main collecting focus is Patrick Roy playing days 85/86-02/03, expect 1/1, National/All-Star stamped cards.PC Completion: 2,548/2,952; 86.31% My Patrick Roy PC Website:https://proy33collector.weebly.com
Since no one will say it, Mark Grace! If he could have stayed off the bottle, he would have gotten to 3000 hits and been in the real Hall. Purest hitter of the 90s... underrated for playing a power position in the steroid era... and not having homer power (could sure bang out doubles though).
@baz518 said:
Since no one will say it, Mark Grace! If he could have stayed off the bottle, he would have gotten to 3000 hits and been in the real Hall. Purest hitter of the 90s... underrated for playing a power position in the steroid era... and not having homer power (could sure bang out doubles though).
I didn't realize he had alcohol problems. That's too bad. He did have a nice swing. I remember he and Will Clark going at it in the playoffs. Will "the Thrill" is also on this list IMO.
@SoxPatsFan said:
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
I am (definitely) biased but if there’s one thing I was surprised to find out over the years it is that Donnie Baseball wasn’t just a Yankee fan favorite but a baseball fan favorite.
I could be wrong but I’m not sure Nomar achieved that status off the field though I can and do completely agree with your assessment of their on field careers.
Maybe if Nomar had been in iconic episode on The Simpsons...
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@SoxPatsFan said:
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
I am (definitely) biased but if there’s one thing I was surprised to find out over the years it is that Donnie Baseball wasn’t just a Yankee fan favorite but a baseball fan favorite.
Mattingly is pretty far up there on my list of favorite non-HOF guys.
'84D was the holy grail for us young collectors.
He always appeared to be a genuine good guy. I remember watching him & Boggs chase the batting title even though Boggs won many more. It was incredible to me even as a young fan.
Mattingly, Boggs, Gwynn, wow I was lucky growing up watching these guys play
@SoxPatsFan said:
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
I am (definitely) biased but if there’s one thing I was surprised to find out over the years it is that Donnie Baseball wasn’t just a Yankee fan favorite but a baseball fan favorite.
Mattingly is pretty far up there on my list of favorite non-HOF guys.
'84D was the holy grail for us young collectors.
He always appeared to be a genuine good guy. I remember watching him & Boggs chase the batting title even though Boggs won many more. It was incredible to me even as a young fan.
Mattingly, Boggs, Gwynn, wow I was lucky growing up watching these guys play
Real hitters.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I didn't see mention or scans of 2 of my favorites to collect, and certainly borderline HOFers if ever there were any.
Willie Davis (baseball, of course) and Al Oliver. Both had long and productive careers, but were never quite stand-outs in their eras among the much more popular players they faced or were teammates with.
Not my cards...but I do have multiple signed and unsigned copies of both
I collect Steve Garvey, Dodgers and signed cards. Collector since 1978.
@SoxPatsFan said:
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
I am (definitely) biased but if there’s one thing I was surprised to find out over the years it is that Donnie Baseball wasn’t just a Yankee fan favorite but a baseball fan favorite.
I could be wrong but I’m not sure Nomar achieved that status off the field though I can and do completely agree with your assessment of their on field careers.
Maybe if Nomar had been in iconic episode on The Simpsons...
I'd agree that Nomar was never as popular across the game as Mattingly. Unfortunately for Nomar, he was often times overshadowed by fellow shortstops Derek Jeter (with his postseason heroics) and Alex Rodriguez (with his huge power numbers).
@SoxPatsFan said:
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
I am (definitely) biased but if there’s one thing I was surprised to find out over the years it is that Donnie Baseball wasn’t just a Yankee fan favorite but a baseball fan favorite.
I could be wrong but I’m not sure Nomar achieved that status off the field though I can and do completely agree with your assessment of their on field careers.
Maybe if Nomar had been in iconic episode on The Simpsons...
I'd agree that Nomar was never as popular across the game as Mattingly. Unfortunately for Nomar, he was often times overshadowed by fellow shortstops Derek Jeter (with his postseason heroics) and Alex Rodriguez (with his huge power numbers).
Before his fall from grace, Miguel Tejada was also pretty highly regarded at the time.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Yaz - 29
Tresh - 29
Allison - 28
E. Howard - 28
Battey - 26
1 Win Share is rounding error, and any of these five would have been fine choices for MVP. The one who really got screwed in 1963 MVP voting was Hank Aaron; best season of his amazing career, and they gave the MVP to a pitcher.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
There are many less dominant pitchers in the Hall and I feel the 1985 CY should have gone to him. My feeling is there was heavy anti NY bias among MVP and Cy voters in the 80's
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
This is a little premature since he just retired this year, but I have a feeling the Laser Show is destined for this club. Impressive resume though for a small second baseman:
2007 A.L. Rookie of the Year
2008 A.L. MVP
2X World Series Champion
2 Seasons of over 200 hits
5 Seasons of 15 or more HR's
138 career stolen bases
.991 career fielding percentage & 4 Gold Gloves
Unfortunately, due to injuries, he played only 9 full seasons and 2 half-seasons. I wish he could have gotten a few more hits to boost his career BA to .300 (his 9 game attempted comeback stints in 2018 & 2019 probably pushed him below).
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
@SoxPatsFan said:
This is a little premature since he just retired this year, but I have a feeling the Laser Show is destined for this club. Impressive resume though for a small second baseman:
2007 A.L. Rookie of the Year
2008 A.L. MVP
2X World Series Champion
2 Seasons of over 200 hits
5 Seasons of 15 or more HR's
138 career stolen bases
.991 career fielding percentage & 4 Gold Gloves
Unfortunately, due to injuries, he played only 9 full seasons and 2 half-seasons. I wish he could have gotten a few more hits to boost his career BA to .300 (his 9 game attempted comeback stints in 2018 & 2019 probably pushed him below).
I always thought of him as the Red Sox version Jeter for the teams he played on; you kind of had to watch him every day to get a feel for how important he was to the team.
Unlike a lot of today’s players, you could tell that he played with his heart and soul to win baseball games.
What more can you ask for?
A great and respected player by this Yankees fan.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
To whom are you referring exactly?
Some hypothetical player?
Sounds like a veiled shot at Derek Jeter, who has the highest election percentage for a position player in the history of baseball since the inaugural class.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
To whom are you referring exactly?
Some hypothetical player?
Sounds like a veiled shot at Derek Jeter, who has the highest election percentage for a position player in the history of baseball since the inaugural class.
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
To whom are you referring exactly?
Some hypothetical player?
Sounds like a veiled shot at Derek Jeter, who has the highest election percentage for a position player in the history of baseball since the inaugural class.
Oh. I thought he was referring to Vizquel.
Gotcha. He was a pretty tremendous fielder, as I recall. Light stick.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
To whom are you referring exactly?
Some hypothetical player?
Sounds like a veiled shot at Derek Jeter, who has the highest election percentage for a position player in the history of baseball since the inaugural class.
Honestly I had Trammell in mind. Vizquel is another example but of course he’s not in the hall.
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
The thing is, it really doesn't. Take a guy like Griffey. Very good to (mostly) great through his first year in Cincinnati. Last eleven years of his career he was very ordinary to awful. Does he get credit for hanging around? Not really. He had 83.8 WAR, but 76.3 of that was in the first eleven years.
To further my point: according to WAR alone, Griffey in his last 11 years was almost as good as Gregor Blanco was in his ten years. If he retires at 30 he's a first ballot HoFer. Of course he made a lot of money playing to 40, and a lot of money for his teams.
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
I agree about players like Mattingly. Kind of goes back to my first post about Nomar Garciaparra. His best years were 1997-2004. After that, he was limited due to injury and was never close to as great as he was during his peak. However, if he had "hung around" and played average ball for 3-5 more years than he did, would the addition of those 3-5 average years really strengthen his HOF case?
@DaveSpiwak said:
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
The thing is, it really doesn't. Take a guy like Griffey. Very good to (mostly) great through his first year in Cincinnati. Last eleven years of his career he was very ordinary to awful. Does he get credit for hanging around? Not really. He had 83.8 WAR, but 76.3 of that was in the first eleven years.
To further my point: according to WAR alone, Griffey in his last 11 years was almost as good as Gregor Blanco was in his ten years. If he retires at 30 he's a first ballot HoFer. Of course he made a lot of money playing to 40, and a lot of money for his teams.
The situation I’m referring to most is those in the ‘hard’ positions where some of them have a WAR comprised largely of credit they get just for taking the field (Position Adjustment and Runs From Replacement). Not to slam Jeter because he’s absolutely a HOFer in my book, but he’s a great example of what I’m referring to. His bWAR is 71.3 and he almost all of it from just taking the field as a shortstop (Position Adjustment plus Runs From Replacement). Most people look at that WAR and think ‘HOFer’ but, at the heart of what WAR is saying, he was just a slightly above average shortstop that played for 20 years.
All that said, I do think Jeter easily belongs in the hall of fame. But generally speaking, if more than 50% of WAR comes from just taking the field, the player isn’t all that much above average. I wholeheartedly agree with WAR’s assumption that average is very valuable. But I don’t think average belongs in the hall of fame over guys who had big peaks and won awards.
Comments
I agree with Gradishar as well but unfortunately he isn’t in yet. I believe the LB position is under represented in the Hall.
Bob Allison. Should have been AL MVP in 1963!
Here's some very good baseball players I grew up watching play, with some admitted bias towards Reds players.
Agreed. Chuck Howley and Tommy Nobis are 2 others.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
**One of my all time favorite card photos.
**
I remember a few years ago when I realized Tommy Nobis wasn't in the HOF. I had always just assumed that he was. I can only assume that it was playing for a terrible team that kept him out.
One of my favorite Red Sox ever. HOF bid derailed by injuries - probably needed 2-3 more all-star caliber seasons.
Always liked collecting these kind of guys, great players, not quite in the hall, or yet atleast,
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 77.97% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.26% Complete)
PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
Oh, McGriff is a good one!
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
My Elston:
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Don Mattingly & Nomar Garciaparra's career trajectories are very parallel. Both were immediately successful in their rookie years, both had a span of around 6 seasons where they were among the very best players in the game, and both had injury issues that caused their numbers to tail off prematurely and leave them just short of the HOF. Though Nomar was traded and didn't play his whole career with one team, he remains hugely popular among Red Sox fans, just as Mattingly has always been a fan favorite among Yankee fans.
Tony already on the thread. 3x batting champ
Rusty hung around 23 years, .279 BA, w/2700 hits
The '63 rookie cards are unique
anyone know what happened to the tennis netpro thread? Shows i got updates but when i click on the thread there is nothing there?
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
These guys were pretty good...
Bernie Williams
Does Pete Rose need another category?
Not HOF but shot themselves in the foot
add Hal Chase to this list
Oliva
Sweet Lou
Rusty Staub
Minoso
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Either Chase was nowhere near as good as his reputation, or he shot himself in the foot really, really badly. I offer no opinion on which the truth is, but note that his career numbers put him beyond both the first and second tier "Hall of Very Good."
Here’s a few more...
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Here is a QB.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
NHL-wise: Bernie Nichols, Pat Verbeek and Theo Fleury come to mind.
Main collecting focus is Patrick Roy playing days 85/86-02/03, expect 1/1, National/All-Star stamped cards.PC Completion: 2,548/2,952; 86.31% My Patrick Roy PC Website:https://proy33collector.weebly.com
Pat Verbeek, the Little Ball of Hate! Great goal scorer, even greater irritant.
Since no one will say it, Mark Grace! If he could have stayed off the bottle, he would have gotten to 3000 hits and been in the real Hall. Purest hitter of the 90s... underrated for playing a power position in the steroid era... and not having homer power (could sure bang out doubles though).
I didn't realize he had alcohol problems. That's too bad. He did have a nice swing. I remember he and Will Clark going at it in the playoffs. Will "the Thrill" is also on this list IMO.
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
I am (definitely) biased but if there’s one thing I was surprised to find out over the years it is that Donnie Baseball wasn’t just a Yankee fan favorite but a baseball fan favorite.
I could be wrong but I’m not sure Nomar achieved that status off the field though I can and do completely agree with your assessment of their on field careers.
Maybe if Nomar had been in iconic episode on The Simpsons...
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Mattingly is pretty far up there on my list of favorite non-HOF guys.
'84D was the holy grail for us young collectors.
He always appeared to be a genuine good guy. I remember watching him & Boggs chase the batting title even though Boggs won many more. It was incredible to me even as a young fan.
Mattingly, Boggs, Gwynn, wow I was lucky growing up watching these guys play
Real hitters.
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I didn't see mention or scans of 2 of my favorites to collect, and certainly borderline HOFers if ever there were any.
Willie Davis (baseball, of course) and Al Oliver. Both had long and productive careers, but were never quite stand-outs in their eras among the much more popular players they faced or were teammates with.
Not my cards...but I do have multiple signed and unsigned copies of both
I'd agree that Nomar was never as popular across the game as Mattingly. Unfortunately for Nomar, he was often times overshadowed by fellow shortstops Derek Jeter (with his postseason heroics) and Alex Rodriguez (with his huge power numbers).
Before his fall from grace, Miguel Tejada was also pretty highly regarded at the time.
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Love it. This is one of the more underrated cards.
Three other guys on his team got more votes!
So what?
Highest WAR and OPS in the league, also led in runs scored, third in HR and fourth in RBI.
Top 5 Win Shares in the AL in 1963:
Yaz - 29
Tresh - 29
Allison - 28
E. Howard - 28
Battey - 26
1 Win Share is rounding error, and any of these five would have been fine choices for MVP. The one who really got screwed in 1963 MVP voting was Hank Aaron; best season of his amazing career, and they gave the MVP to a pitcher.
There are many less dominant pitchers in the Hall and I feel the 1985 CY should have gone to him. My feeling is there was heavy anti NY bias among MVP and Cy voters in the 80's
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
This is a little premature since he just retired this year, but I have a feeling the Laser Show is destined for this club. Impressive resume though for a small second baseman:
2007 A.L. Rookie of the Year
2008 A.L. MVP
2X World Series Champion
2 Seasons of over 200 hits
5 Seasons of 15 or more HR's
138 career stolen bases
.991 career fielding percentage & 4 Gold Gloves
Unfortunately, due to injuries, he played only 9 full seasons and 2 half-seasons. I wish he could have gotten a few more hits to boost his career BA to .300 (his 9 game attempted comeback stints in 2018 & 2019 probably pushed him below).
I’ll always love Pedroia.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I think the guys with very high peaks and relatively short careers belong in the hall over guys that were average for 20 years. WAR really works against guys with short careers, particularly if they’re an ‘easy’ position like 1B, LF, RF. I’m on board with WAR for the most part but I don’t think it’s the best gauge of judging players for the hall. I’ll take a guy like Mattingly that had a period of a few years where he was the best player in baseball over a guy that just hangs around and is ‘average’ for 20 years playing shortstop.
I always thought of him as the Red Sox version Jeter for the teams he played on; you kind of had to watch him every day to get a feel for how important he was to the team.
Unlike a lot of today’s players, you could tell that he played with his heart and soul to win baseball games.
What more can you ask for?
A great and respected player by this Yankees fan.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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To whom are you referring exactly?
Some hypothetical player?
Sounds like a veiled shot at Derek Jeter, who has the highest election percentage for a position player in the history of baseball since the inaugural class.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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Oh. I thought he was referring to Vizquel.
Gotcha. He was a pretty tremendous fielder, as I recall. Light stick.
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Honestly I had Trammell in mind. Vizquel is another example but of course he’s not in the hall.
The thing is, it really doesn't. Take a guy like Griffey. Very good to (mostly) great through his first year in Cincinnati. Last eleven years of his career he was very ordinary to awful. Does he get credit for hanging around? Not really. He had 83.8 WAR, but 76.3 of that was in the first eleven years.
To further my point: according to WAR alone, Griffey in his last 11 years was almost as good as Gregor Blanco was in his ten years. If he retires at 30 he's a first ballot HoFer. Of course he made a lot of money playing to 40, and a lot of money for his teams.
Both are HOFers in my book though
I agree about players like Mattingly. Kind of goes back to my first post about Nomar Garciaparra. His best years were 1997-2004. After that, he was limited due to injury and was never close to as great as he was during his peak. However, if he had "hung around" and played average ball for 3-5 more years than he did, would the addition of those 3-5 average years really strengthen his HOF case?
The situation I’m referring to most is those in the ‘hard’ positions where some of them have a WAR comprised largely of credit they get just for taking the field (Position Adjustment and Runs From Replacement). Not to slam Jeter because he’s absolutely a HOFer in my book, but he’s a great example of what I’m referring to. His bWAR is 71.3 and he almost all of it from just taking the field as a shortstop (Position Adjustment plus Runs From Replacement). Most people look at that WAR and think ‘HOFer’ but, at the heart of what WAR is saying, he was just a slightly above average shortstop that played for 20 years.
All that said, I do think Jeter easily belongs in the hall of fame. But generally speaking, if more than 50% of WAR comes from just taking the field, the player isn’t all that much above average. I wholeheartedly agree with WAR’s assumption that average is very valuable. But I don’t think average belongs in the hall of fame over guys who had big peaks and won awards.