PCGS Straight-Graded Counterstamps, Chop Marks and Defaced Coins thread
Zoins
Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
It seems like the topic of chop marks being straight graded comes up a lot on the forums. I've certainly seen people ask questions about why many times, the latest showing up again in the thread: Buying obviously damaged, but ultra rare varieties....
There's some concern that chop marks are treated differently than other counterstamps and punches that are not graded, so here's a thread showcasing the different types of marks that are straight-graded by PCGS.
Please post more such coins in this thread, both ones that are straight graded by PCGS and those that are not, but you feel should be.
Chop Marked Trade Dollar - PCGS AU58 POP 2/0 - David Reimer
1804 Dexter Dollar - PCGS PR65 POP 1/2 - James Villa Dexter, Brent Pogue, Bruce Morelan
1854-O Quarter Eagle - J.L. Polhemus Druggist Counterstamp - Brunk P-563 - PCGS XF45
- Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/35672243
- Additional Description: https://finestknown.com/product/1854-o-2-5-gold-liberty-pcgs-xf45-s-s-central-amercia-with-counterstamp/
Anguilla Liberty Dollar - PCGS AU53 POP 1/1
1979 Papal Visit Mel Wacks Counterstamp - PCGS MS66 POP 2/0
1941 Western Reserve Numismatic Club Counterstamp - PCGS MS63 POP 1/0
- Cert Verification: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36226729
Comments
Here are some Mint stamped coins and patterns:
1814 Platinum Half Dollar - J-44a - PCGS XF40 POP 1/0
1860 E50C Half Dollar, Judd-269, Pollock-317, R.8 -- Mint Defaced -- PCGS PR65 BN POP 1/0 CAC - Lenox-Cox-Boosel-Ivy-Queller-Simpson
This is partially in response to the following post:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12282085/#Comment_12282085
Based on the above, I would say that PCGS straight-grades many punches with "equally valid interests" and perhaps it's worth becoming familiar with Canonese if one has these questions. Additionally, PCGS China appears to be a big business: https://www.pcgs.com.cn/ .
Someone really had fun with the platinum half. Is there any other coin with such rarity and value that has been defaced in such an over-the-top and haphazard manner? The irony is amusing, and I can't help but smile whenever I see that photo.
It would have been pretty fun to strike so many marks into that coin!
If I owned that, I'd be very tempted to have some fun and add my own "P"
Here's an elusive MS trade dollar I made back in 2016. Kind of wished I'd kept her. But she was a catch and release...
--Severian the Lame
If you could you sneak another one in with the same style "P" punch and still get it to straight grade, that might just be greatest joke in numismatics.
Perhaps, but I'd venture it could straight-grade even if our hosts knew about it, like the Dexter Dollar.
The James Villa Dexter Dollar is a nice example and I added to the OP.
Beautiful coin and great catch! I'd be sorry to see her go as well!
Here's a 74-CC trade dollar with a single chopmark...one of my favorite straight graded chopped trade dollars. This one grades MS63.
I know @TradesWithChops has a few nice ones too.
Here's one that shouldn't have made this thread. Straight graded MS63 but there's a sneaky chopmark on the obverse.
Funny thing is, I sent this in as part of a submission with about 20 other obviously chopmarked pieces. I even wrote "chopmark" in the notes, so I have to think they looked for the chopmark and still missed it. Still in the MS63 holder today.
Question,
why does all of the above coins properly identify the coins with either the term chop mark or counterstamp etc except for the 1804 Dollar with the counter stamped "D"?
Do you mean “counterstamp” without a space and “counter stamp” with a space?
Because the 1804 dollar doesn’t have a Chinese chopmark or official counter mark.
I honestly don’t think chop marked coins are straight graded. I think the ‘chop mark’ designation is part of the grade. Ie: a regular trade dollar is graded MS63. A chopmarked trade dollar is graded MS63 Chop Mark. A subtle but distinct difference.
Who determines what’s official? While called the James Villa Dexter dollar, the counter stamp is from William Forrester Dunham and seen on many coins and tokens.
It has a counterstamp, thought I wrote that pretty clearly, but oh well.
This is an important point. None of these coins show only a grade on they holder (except maybe the 1804, is the mark mentioned on the holder?). The grade is combined with another designation.
Technically speaking, it looks like it's a straight grade where "Chop Mark" is the variety:
Another thing to mention is that for some of these, the value is in the counterstamp.
For example:
1854-O Quarter Eagle - J.L. Polhemus Druggist Counterstamp - Brunk P-563 - PCGS XF45
But technically speaking this has nothing to do with varieties as numismatists would define the word.
Yes, but we're talking specifically about the PCGS assigned grade, not numismatists in general. The PCGS database shows a straight grade for these.
Likely due to a lack of better way to handle this, or possibly convenience.
Perhaps, but it seems reasonable to rely on the PCGS Cert Verification database results, unless someone from PCGS says differently.
Easiest way to tell they aren’t straight graded - an ms63 with a chopmark doesn’t have the same value as an ms63 without. Some might actually be higher but most are lower.
I’d consider them straight graded for their “variety”.
The easiest way to tell they aren’t the “opposite” of straight grades, or problem coins, is that they have a numeric grade that isn’t in the 80-99 range.
I noticed that CAC has a chopmark trade dollar pop report category on their website. Anyone have any with green beans? Curious as to what their guidelines are to qualify?
I have a PCGS chopmarked Trade Dollar.... I think that is the only counterstamped coin I have... I just think chop marks are an interesting historical anomaly and wanted one for my collection. I have also tried - unsuccessfully - to find a chop stamp.... but seems they are never available. Cheers, RickO