Barry Bonds last year on HOF ballot
pootshwan
Posts: 85 ✭✭
Bonds possibly never getting into HOF doesn't seem to be keeping bidders away.
1986 Topps Traded Tiffany PSA 10
For what it's worth this card has a population of 441, a bit more than I was expecting considering the price it commands.
Has your stance on letting PED users into the hall softened at all over the years? Interested in hearing what Collectors Universe has to say
Frank Thomas collector
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Oh sweet fancy Moses
No, my stance hasn't softened on PED usage. If the Hit King isn't in the HOF, what makes you think the HR King would be any less collectible if he's not?
My stance has not softened.
What I don't get completely is why some guys seemingly get a "pass" (e.g., Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge, Thome) while others do not. Now, I am not saying any of those guys 100% used PEDs but Clemens never tested positive and he is an absolute no go.
Bonds is the GOAT in his sport. HOF or not, his collectibles will continue to rise in value.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Bonds should be in.
7x MVP
The only 500 HR and 500 stolen bases member.
762 HR
8x gold gloves.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
Surprised there are 441 of these (seems high)
Gave you the trifecta, you should wander over here more often.
This is a hot take if I've ever seen one
I think some of those guys get in, but only AFTER they have died. Mabe not even then. Rose will not get in while he is living.
Shoeless Joe Jackson died in 1951. On the other hand, Gaylord Perry got in on the third ballot.
Terry Pendleton in 1991 and Jeff Kent in 2000 both had great seasons. But I'm not sure either was more "valuable" than Bonds and, consequently, Bonds could have been a 9x NL MVP.
I do actually think both are less collectible if they are not in the HOF. I don't even think that is up for debate. There are hobbyists who ONLY collect high grade "HOF rookies" or HOF players.
Or there are those that are trying to complete registries where both players will be left off. So yea, I'd say any player that is not in the HOF is a little bit less collectible than if he would have made it.
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/baseball/players/hall-fame-players-post-war-rookies/1514
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/baseball/players/hall-fame-players/1513
My POV....Bonds belongs in Hall. End of story.
He didn’t need the last 400 to be top 5 player of his generation. Despite being a Bonds fan, I don’t dare if he gets in or not. The Hall is no longer a “standard” I respect like I did as a kid.
I don’t like Clemens but he belongs in also.
In a world where a 2018 Luka silver prizm with a PSA 10 pop of 2000 sells for $8,500 this Bonds seems like a steal with or without a Hall induction.
The Bonds pop is also relatively stable as it’s a 5000 limited set and as this with the Bo were always the top chase cards so most of these have been submitted over the years.
I also think Bonds and Clemens should be in the Hall but if that happens I see their cards another 50% higher as most folks aren’t expecting that anymore.
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
In a world where anyone chooses to spend $8,500 on some thing with "prizm" in its name don't expect anything to make sense.
I don't think anyone would argue with looking at his statistics that he belongs. They are extremely impressive obviously. What we don't really know is how many of those numbers were accumulated clean. Also, many believe if you cheat it doesn't matter what you accomplished beforehand....you are cheater.
How many collectors does it take to saturate a pop. 441? I know a couple guys who each have a dozen of them.... that's 24 for the most infamous ballplayer ever. 441 is nothing IMO.
I look at it this way. When he left Pittsburgh. He was pretty much a HOF player. If he wasn't already at that point. There was also never any positive drug test.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
He was on his way to having a HOF career in Pitt but he wasn't a HOFer just from his Pittcburgh days. Only 176 HR's total. The question becomes how long after he went to SF did he start using?
Again, Some people don't even care about when he started juicing
The fact that ped use was going on. Then MLB doing nothing to stop it for years. So there is also a question. How many stats are accurate? There are some that it was proven they were using.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
What bothers me, and I'm sure I'm not alone, is that Bonds, Rodriguez, and Clemens are blackballed while far, far lesser players who used PEDs have been ushered in.
One I don’t think you can compare baseball to basketball right now because basketball is in another stratosphere compared to baseball. Majority of the collectors don’t care about the POP. Basketball is so global which makes it the number one sport, baseball is the third popular sport and to be honest it could be 4th because soccer is probably a head of baseball at this point.
Two Bonds was not beloved at all by the media or the public. He was a total prick. I think it does hurt his card / memorabilia value. I’m a Bonds fan since 1985 but I just don’t think his stuff will be like the true G.O.A.T’s that we are seeing when it comes to value. I sold my entire Bonds collection minus a few items within the last year. If he doesn’t get in next year he will never get into the hall.
.> @BPorter26 said:
I tend to believe he learned his PR/people skills from his Godfather who is a total ass.
I've heard speculation around Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez....am I missing anyone?
Biggio. Raines.
Ryan.
Rickey.
Exactly. How was it cheating if everyone else was using? I call it a level playing field. And although Bonds may have not of had enough years in Pittsburgh to get in the hall, he was the best player in baseball when he left for SF.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
this cardboard is worthy but not that cardboard? 🤔
whatever you do, don't go looking at the 1985 "prizm" vending stickers from the $.25 pizza hut machines. the jordan one might blow a gasket. and it's not even cardboard. it's a sticker.
probably the most prevalent take away from the thread, imo.
and i agree, although i wish i didn't.
Lebron, I’d like to see about what he takes compared to what Bonds took.
I’d also like to point out how many celebrated football and wrestling hall of famers there are that have likely used more supplements than Bonds or Clemens.
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
I blame Jose, that snitch! I liked Bonds, but it was obvious he was juicing.
It's a shame Rose will never get in, betting on his own Team to win is not the same as using PEDs. I used to love Rose, but not anymore. You can't lie to our faces for years and then come clean and expect everyone to forgive you.
PS I hate Jim Gray!
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I always thought him too but no one ever mentions Rickey.
Rickey and Raines probably retired just in time.
441 is a lot of 10s considering there were only 5,000 Tiffany sets printed. And that only counts the 10s from PSA.
But I believe Bonds was one of the best players to play the game. I don’t really like that he holds the HR record but taking HRs out of the equation look at the numbers he put up. How many players can say they had more seasons where they posted more walks than strikeouts. He did that in more than half the seasons he played. Batting Avg. over .300 in almost every season. Steroids make you stronger but I don’t know that they improve hand-eye coordination. One of only 4 players to have a 40/40 season. He probably could have had several 40/40 seasons without steroids but by adding all that muscle he slowed himself down. I say let him in. Along with Clemens, Canseco, Palmiero, Will Clark, Sosa, McGwire and anyone else that put up the numbers but was accused of using steroids. It was an era where players had to choose between using steroids or possibly losing their job. EVERYONE during that time was using even if they didn’t get caught or get accused. They may not have used to the point that Bonds did (he may have used a little too much) but when a player got hurt the quickest way back on the field was steroids. Either way, let em in!
On the other hand take Robinson Cano and don’t let him in. He is just being stupid about it. How many times do you need to get caught and suspended before you learn your lesson?
Yea, agreed. I'm sure it has a lot to do with not being inserted in packs, out in circulation etc.
Well, not everyone was using...
Bonds swing never changed.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
Not sure why Clemens gets lumped in with the PED crew. no credible evidence and no failed test.
we have had many many spirited debates about this over on the sports talk side
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
sees picture above
Nolan Ryan as well.
One of the biggest irony's to the steroids era is the people that support the steroid users. They seem to adopt this protectionism mentality regarding these players and MLB itself almost to a delusional state. It's almost like they can convince themselves to ignore the history of evidence that has been accumulated. Even those that attempt to provide insight on the nature of the cheating and give evidence are quickly labeled as snitches.
The irony is that the thing they are trying to protect is the same thing that ruined professional baseball in the first place and left it in the state it's currently in (far behind the NFL and NBA in popularity). MLB was once lucky enough to be America's game. It had an image of a clean sport which every wholesome american boy ate apple pie and watched baseball. When someone broke the rules like Pete Rose and Joe Jackson they stood no chance of ever being a part of it again because that would tarnish their game. The mentality to keep this game pure meant everything to the sport. It the 80's it began to deteriorate down to a mafia like run organization where the entire sport was fixed in order to remain competitive with the rampant rise in popularity of the NFL and NBA. A place where their heroes were manufactured using a substance that turned it's normal Bruce Banner like players into beasts like the Incredible Hulk all under the watchful eye of the controlling interest of the MLB.
So now there is an IQ bar? No, if you let one in, you should let them all in. Being stupid is not a disqualifier, IMO.
Haha, what exactly is a hitting aid.
Self explanatory. Asked and answered. Plenty of discussion on this in many places for literally 20 years now. I won't rehash and waste people's time. Hence the believes part.
Wasn't McGwire accused of using Andro which was legal at the time (i.e., the infamous interview in front of his locker)? Heck, they sold it at GNC. I don't know all the details obviously but I err on the side of the players, here. There ARE guys in the HOF who were juiced while playing. I just don't think it is a fair process. Some do seem to get a pass while others are crucified by the media. But as was mentioned earlier, the HOF is just not what it used to be. I agree.
That is some major revisionist history rose colored glasses on his PItt numbers
In his 7 Pitt seasons, he hit .275/.380/.503/.883 with 176 HR and 984 hits, as well as 251 steals and 556 RBI. 147OPS+ as well. Through age 27 season, so at what is usually recognized as his peak.
So, not on track for 3000 hits, 500 HR, 1500 RBI and a 275 hitter.
Cesar Cedeno had a pretty similar first 7 years to that, swapping a little speed for power....
So yeah, no way was he near a HOF as he left
Bonds then for the next 7 years, exiting the athletic peak at say age 34, was pretty much the same guy as he was in his near peak and peak last 3 years in Pitt. About a 175 OPS player, 300 hitter, which is fantastic.
Bonds then for the last 7 years, in what for nearly every player in history is a decline phase if not a complete self destruction and retirement....hit .325 with a 230 OPS+, which is a bigger delta above the OPS of Babe Ruth;s entire career as Ruth's was to anyone else in history, and Ruth crushes everyone else.
Bonds at age 35-41 was PEAK Babe Ruth and maybe a bit more.
But he never tested positive....
I feel that if the HOF has no problem putting in past PED users like: Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mike Schmidt, Mickey Mantle to name a few, then they should have no problem letting in modern known PED users like Manny Ramirez, Palmiero, McGwire, Sosa etc.
a very clear double standard. players were even experimenting with PED in the 19th Century when Pud Galvin tried it.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It was brilliant doing an interview with the Andro in his locker. It explained his physical growth (but we now know better) very cleverly.
Yes he did. Three or four times now. Plus he admitted to using, saying he didn't know it was a steroid.
As with McGwire we found out later, but it was obvious then.