Wall Street Is Piling Into Sports Cards As Prices Soar....
erikthredd
Posts: 9,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
2
Comments
We are getting close to a Time magazine cover article for "investing in trading cards". That will be the signal that the top is near and to sell and buy back 2 years later.
Robb
Investment funds are stockpiling for a 5-10 yr total return.
Yeah, let's hope we don't jump the shark with this
One of the better written mainstream articles on the current sports card environment. I find many of them cringe worthy.
agreed. my phone has been blowing up and friends coming outta the woodworks since 6am.
think dpeck and i started up early this am about this article
I love the last sentence:
"The difference between cards and stock [is] nobody loves a stock," he said. "Some people who buy these cards, to get them to sell it is like getting them to take off an arm."
The Gretzky Topps PSA 10 sold out on Rally for 800k in 15 minutes.
wait till China jumps in lol
What they (Wall Street investors) have done/are doing, is turning a sports card, like a 1986 Fleer Jordan, or a 1979 OPC Gretzky, or a 1986 Topps Barry Bonds or Bo Jackson; Hell, any card, into nothing more than an investment share, like an Amazon stock.
Now, instead of buying 100 shares of Amazon, Exxon or Microsoft, you can buy 100 shares of "Jordan".
It's absolutely disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve
Afternoon,
Until Your the One holding the Jordan, Gretzky, or Jackson! Then even while your disgusted with it, you will have Thousands of Little Green Friends to share in your Shame!!!
YeeHah!
Neil
So, in other words, for you, it's "All About the Benjamins"; you only care about the money.
You're certainly entitled to feel that way, but many of us don't give a damn about the money; we LOVE THE CARDS!!!!! We do not want to sell! Sure, we don't want to lose money in the process, but we also don't need these insane price increases we're seeing now!
Steve
You can love the cards and love the price appreciation too.
Actually Its Not about the Benjamins...My Cards, Comics, and Rare Books, I Love them all. That said, in 50 years of Collecting, I've NEVER EVER EVER seen anything like what is currently happening in this Market! If your main reason to Play this Market, is to better afford what you Love, that's reason enough to Jump In!
So am I going to Make a Few Bucks off of it! He!! Yeah! Can I get a HE!! YES! HEI! YEAH!!!
YeeHaw!
Neil
That isn't, and can't be, true. Your 100 shares of Microsoft and my 100 shares of Microsoft will sell, at the same time, for the same price to a knowledgeable buyer. They are commodities. Your 100 PSA 6 '86 Jordans are likely worth far more than mine because you chose well centered cards that were strong for the grade while I just set a filter on eBay and bought the first hundred 6s that met my price. All shares of Microsoft are indistinguishable. All cards are unique, though many are very similar.
Did you read the article in the link?
It states:
"Funds are being created. They're getting investors involved and pooling five, 10, 15 million dollars," said Jesse Craig, director of business development at PWCC Marketplace, a top seller of premium cards.
Josh Luber, the co-founder of sneaker resale startup StockX, left the company last year to form Six Forks Kids Club, an alternative asset management company focused on cards. The moment, he said, was simply too big to pass up.
"It's hard to find someone [in] my generation whose first business wasn't buying baseball cards when they were 10," Luber, who is 42, told CNN Business. "We're all of the age where we have a little bit more money, but we're also in positions of decision-making for investment funds."
The arrival of institutional money has quickly transformed the market. Goldin said for the first time in his career, he's fielding calls from hedge funds interested in gaining exposure.
Takeover interest has also emerged, given the limited number of prominent companies in the sector. Last month, angel investor Nat Turner and Steve Cohen, the billionaire hedge fund titan and owner of the New York Mets, announced they were buying authentication service Collectors Universe in a $853 million deal, after sweetening a bid first made in November.
It's not just big money getting into the game as the sector gets a financial makeover.
Fractional trading has also reshaped the trading card business, allowing everyday buyers to purchase a small stake in a LeBron James or Patrick Mahomes card that would have otherwise been too costly, in the same way people can now buy a piece of expensive stocks like Apple (AAPL) and Amazon (AMZN).
"We realized the potential fractional ownership could have to break down a massive barrier to entry," said Ezra Levine, the CEO of Collectable, which buys sports cards and converts them into tradable assets registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Collectable distributes individual shares of cards on its platform through initial public offerings. The shares can then be bought and sold as if they were stock in Microsoft (MSFT) or AMC Entertainment (AMC).
The firm has completed roughly 40 IPOs since last fall, and boasts of impressive returns. A 1986 Jordan card that went public at $10 per share in October is now trading at $60 per share, while stock in an autographed James card from 2003 has jumped 50% since late December.
Steve
But don't you think a good majority of the "new money" in this market buys the holder and not the card? So your 6 and someone else's 6 are probably pretty indistinguishable...
People enter the market with different goals, too:
I wasn’t looking for high grade; I was looking for high quality. The fact that the card graded 4 (accurately) is irrelevant to me; I would put the card up against most 6’s in a Pepsi challenge and win on eye appeal against the vast percentage...
...yet the 6 will likely sell for 2 to 3 times what mine will sell for.
You can probably guess which one matters to me 😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
i understand your point of view. and it's not for me either, however may i offer an opportunity to not look at it in such a disgusting and negative manner? many of life's frustrations are about perception. try looking at it as a positive since it's obviously not for you. it's giving folks who could never afford such a card the opportunity to enjoy a small slice of the hobby. it's creating joy for those guys, so let them have it. it's also bringing people into the hobby that may have never entered as well. in turn, if things go well for this sector, that could only have a positive ripple effect and perhaps engage them into the more traditional style of collecting. that in turn leads to more collectors and more camaraderie.
and while obviously this isn't the traditional way of collecting, there is a traditional saying in our hobby that goes something along the lines of "there's no wrong way to collect". if it's bringing its participants joy, let them have it. no one likes urine in their cheerios, right? even if it fails though, the hobby will have learned a lesson on what not to do. edison and the thousands of ways he learned how not to make a lightbulb scenario. a few more positives about to roll out...it was of no consequence to you AND you can tell them "i told you so" if you're into those petty type notions.
lemons and lemonade. it's only disgusting and all about the money if you choose to focus on that aspect. and that doesn't sound like much fun to me.
That's a good point @blurryface. In a way it's not much different than memorabilia cards that include a slice of Babe Ruth's bat or a swatch of uniform. Most people can't afford the complete item, so they opt for the card that contains a portion. Granted no one is slicing up the cards they are group purchasing, but the idea is similar.
Neither memorabilia card or group-funded cards are my personal preference, but then I'm far from the only opinion in the hobby.
Now this is a great response and excellent forward thinking.
$10 or $15 million pooled funds? Pfft. Real ballers either buy a professional sports team or take CLCT private.
Like most of you I have spent a great deal money and time on my collection. I have showed my wife articles and finished auction prices along the way. While impressed, she knows I don’t really sell anything. And likely never will be much of a seller.
So to me, this appreciation is far more of a hindernace than benefit. The product that I love to accumulate, and perhaps even rip from time to time, is far more expensive than it used to be.
Cards will never be like stocks to me. I have zero collection to Zoom stock and will sell when I feel it is appropriate and there are better economics to be realized. But my precious 1983 Michigan boxes can hit $3k and they will sit in my collection.
So all in all, I am not a fan of the new money pouring in. I’m happy for all of you who will cash out. That’s very exciting and I hope even life changing for you guys. But it doesn’t do anything for me other than cost me a whole helluva lot more to buy what I love to collect.
Marking something to market in a spreadsheet doesn’t give me the same juice as buying a collection of unopened packs for an affordable price and ripping a handful with friends over drinks.
To each his own.
John
Meant to post this here, but put it wrong thread initially...
This is what happens in an entirely unregulated market. First come the fake sales, a tried and true scam in our hobby (either unpaid like Goldin’s 1.6M Mantle, or bought via proxy, as guys will happily pay a small percentage fee to change the optics and sales record on a card they own many copies of)...
Then people start buzzing: “You hear X card went for THIS MUCH?!” That creates legitimate Fear Of Missing Out among collectors— who now scramble to grab cards they’ve always liked in desperate hopes of staying ahead of the manipulation wave. Yet this behavior creates its own price spikes.
Alongside these elements comprising the perfect storm of today, you have sellers who witness these massive numbers and say, “Screw it.” So what do they do? En masse, they all raise their prices on cards that were fake sold. So now buyers’ eyes get “anchored” to the new optics, the new numbers.
You also have the self anointed new bosses of the hobby, online snake oil hucksters trying to be your life coach and tell you what to buy (which they own). These guys direct the lemmings to their “stock picks.” This is a separate dynamic from the aforementioned fake sellers who buy many copies of a card then fake sell it or buy it in various venues to get the higher price to “take” or stick.
And yes, there are some fractional ownership companies out there now cherry picking some higher end items. And perhaps there is even some truth to the notion that there are “funds” out there, but not major hedge funds with 5 billion under management— rather a few million in pooled funds that guys want to use to make some money. But overpaying grossly without regard for eye appeal or pricing history isn’t really what Ivy League money does to make money.
The guys who profit from this climate try to write off all this activity as “The Wall Street Hedge Fund Guys” coming in. Invoking the specter of Gordon Gekko and thinking we will shut our brains off. But the real Gordon Gekko’s and their firms don’t play with cards. They don’t wake up and go, “I’ve never been into cards before and don’t know anything about them, but I like sports so let me throw a ton of money at stuff.” That is not how smart, rich people shop. Bad actors out there don’t just want us to buy into this false caricature of “the rich man who has so much money, he doesn’t care, it’s a rounding error to him.” They want us to believe an army of this fictitious creature has descended upon the hobby.
Anyways, you brew all this together, and what we get is today. And to be sure, this storm does indeed generate some “real” sales.
Ultimately, a binary set of reactions emerges. We can be happy our cards are worth more— but we may find they are not, if we try to legitimately sell them. And many collectors love their collections and do not want to sell, which renders their new worth moot.
Or, we can realize that this mess is fundamentally toxic to the market and hobby, and to a collector its only real effect is rising prices for what you’d like to buy.
So pragmatically speaking, more money is coming out of collectors’ pockets. A collector wants to keep his collection and add to his collection, not sell his collection or pieces of it into a storm largely whipped up by unethical actors. I don’t know many guys shaking pom poms and jumping for joy because the value of cards they have zero intention to sell has allegedly gone up. They’re looking at the cost of what they’d still like to buy— and when they look into the cause(s) they see lots of shade in a market with zero regulation.
I’ve found a path to staying happy is simply continuing to enjoy my collection, and refusing to add cards that I feel have been swept up in the storm surge. I enjoyed my cards when they would have lost me money upon selling, and I enjoy them the same and not an iota more now that they might make me some loot if I sold. Because I’m not a seller. And I can choose to not be a buyer. Which renders the madness moot. When there’s a storm or bad weather I’ll hang inside and have a blast enjoying my cards, so it’s still all good.
DM23HOF,
Thanks for posting this. It helps me to better understand what's behind all this.
David (judgebuck)
Always looking for Mantle cards such as Stahl Meyer, 1954 Dan Dee, 1959 Bazooka, 1960 Post, 1952 Star Cal Decal, 1952 Tip Top Bread Labels, 1953-54 Briggs Meat, and other Topps, Bowman, and oddball Mantles.
Well said.
I can also add I'm thankful for all my acquisitions I've been able to do prior to this market madness or whatever it is.
I'm riding it out to get back to my want list at a later date
One benefit of recent activity and events: a few of my Ebay Saved Searches prompts, that have been dormant for many moons, have recently notified me of the availability of certain relatively rare copies that I am interested in. Despite some atmospheric BIN prices, I do sense that some strong holders/collectors of these copies are perhaps seeing a trigger point to sell.
Matt, Best. Post. Ever. Completely nails every single thought we’ve shared for weeks. This should be required reading for the hobbyist.
Of all the cards they could have shown, they have a Timberwolves card? Jordan - yes but T-wolves?
This description fits me, too. I don't (can't) collect anymore. The quality cards I could go after at the 500.00-2k range that got me excited are now WAY beyond what I could've imagined. In 6 months a card I was an underbidder on twice at 4k plus...losing by 50 bucks each time, has tripled and now I can't fathom paying 12-14k...or more.
I'm basically done. I used to add 5-10 cards per month. I haven't added a card in 3 months 😕.
I'm bummed, but I'll find something else to collect. Meanwhile, my card collection has become very valuable. It's mostly pre-1960, so it hasn't appreciated quite the same as the crazy modern stuff, however. Hard to believe I'll never be able to add a sparkling, centered '75 Moses Malone to my collection--Moses fcking Malone--but I'll live! LOL
"You've gotta be a man to play this game...but you'd better have a lot of little boy in you, too"--Roy Campanella
Agreed. Great insight.
"You've gotta be a man to play this game...but you'd better have a lot of little boy in you, too"--Roy Campanella