Capped Bust Halves....when did they LEAVE reserve storage?
OliverDePlaise
Posts: 102 ✭✭✭
I know I'm not finding what I'm looking for which is a link to the time WHEN half dollars were used as Treasury storage coins.
From the evidence of quite large quantities of unc or near unc coins, it seems they must have gone quite quickly into reserve.
Also, from the evidence of the much more worn Seated half dollars, they must have remained in storage DURING the time the seated coins were minted.
Is this true?
Any info or links?
Thx.
0
Comments
Bust halves became the largest silver denomination minted in 1804 and remained so for 30+ years. They were often stored in bulk in bank vaults and bags were used to settle financial transactions among them. They also represented the backing of state bank paper money, as required by law. This went on for decades.
It is important to remember that the banks were the source of the Mint's silver, by and large. So the banks received, in exchange, the newly minted coins.
Author and researcher Edgar Souders writes in his marvelous "Bust Half Fever" book, "....in the first 40 years of the Mint's existence the majority of coinage struck was for the first and second United States Banks. The Banks distributed the halves to its own vaults, to other banks, and to brokers who exported the halves to other countries."
It was the exporting of US dollars which were recoined into foreign pieces for a small profit that led to Jefferson's directive to cease production of silver dollars. It lasted 30 years.
Lance.
So are you saying that most of the higher grade CBH were shipped here from overseas?
It is an interesting question that will probably never really be answered. Some may have come back from outside the country but any that were being used as reserves by banks in the US probably just sat there. There was no numismatic interest in them so the bags at the bottom of the reserve pile probably just stayed there.
Okay.... given.
So why if there were piles of bags did they bother to mint the seated ones?
@lkeigwin So the reason for so many high grade bust halves is a decent % backed paper money and were traded between banks? Interesting question OP
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Report of the State of Coins, House of Rep., March 17, 1832:
pg. 22, "The First Bank of the United States, except at its commencement, issued no notes under ten dollars, and as its circulation at the end of twenty years did not much exceed the amount of its specie fund, about five million dollars..."
pg. 67 "The difference of intrinsic value is about four to five mills each, but foreign dollars have commanded from one half to one and one fourth percent premium; hence the inferiority in the value of our coins tends to hasten their exportation."
pg. 72 "From these statements, it appears that the Mint has coined, since its establishment in 1794, about thirty seven of millions of dollars, of which about four-fifths have probably been exported, leaving only seven to eight millions in the United States..."
There is also data as to what percent of the 7-8M$ was in circulation, which was less than half.
I would expect most of the exported US silver coinage was melted and re-coined.
As to when the remaining CBH came out of the banks, some of the heavily worn coins were melted from the Sub-treasury recoinage efforts, but the majority of CBH's remained.
CBH's did not have a numismatic premium pre-1900 (except 1815) so there was no incentive to remove them from bank deposits.
In 1925, Max Mehl only paid 50-55 cents for CBH's except 1815 ($1.75-3.00). The M.L. Beistle half dollar book in 1929 increased interest and prices of CBH's. I remember an account of numismatists going to banks around 1930 for CBH's at face, but can't recall the source, it may have been Stack's.
Because they were being used as reserves and were not being placed into circulation.
@Nysoto did you mean 1930 when people went around looking for Bust Halves for face?
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Crypto yes, corrected thanks.
Right. Surely there are other reasons but bank vaults is the primary one. No doubt some people socked-away half dollars as a savings.
@OliverDePlaise "So why if there were piles of bags did they bother to mint the seated ones?"
Because commerce demanded it. Hoarding limits what circulates. Roughly 82 million capped bust half dollars were minted, most during their last decade.
Half dollars were spent again and again. Let's not suggest most were never circulated. We're just looking at why there are many high grade survivors.
As for what was shipped overseas, who really knows? An 1830 Senate committee reported this, according to Neil Carothers' book "Fractional Money": Of the roughly $25,000,000 in silver coined since the Mint opened only $14M remained in the country and about $2M was in bank reserves. (And banks didn't want denominations smaller than a half dollar. Too much counting work.)
Lance.
More data on how much US coinage was exported, from my copy of the 2-19-1834 Senate report from the Select Committee on Coins:
Simply a great thread, thanks
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I had mentioned above the Sub-treasury re-coinage effort of worn coins, and they also re-coined "uncurrent" coins along with "cleaned" coins that were deemed good enough to return to circulation. The following is a screenshot of an 1888 Treasury report. It is surprising the number of CBH's that survive with the exporting and re-coining. As Lance stated above some of the CBH survivors came from personal holdings of silver coins, in addition to the bank deposits.
Someone's flexing with the 1803 eagle in the background.... We demand better pictures.
Nothing to add, other than ...
this
is why
I LOVE
this
place!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Does this data support the survival estimates provided on CoinFacts? How comfortable are you @Nysoto with their estimates?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
*Half eagle, we demand better pictures of the half eagle
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Yes whatever it is we demand better pictures.
OK - here's some closer pictures of the paperweights. An 1803/2 half eagle, and a 1613-1615 Unite with James VI and I, the original Jacobite, son of Mary Queen of Scots. Robert Scot's instructor, Richard Cooper, was a staunch Jacobite.
@Catbert asked:
I believe most of the CBH information on CoinFacts came from the Overton editions, with some editorializing. Basically good information. A person should use the latest Overton edition rarity estimates for total CBH survivors by die marriage, rather than TPG pops. The PCGS data is still good for quantities in PCGS grade ranges.
For the OP questions, there is no exact answer, but I wanted to show some factual data from archival sources that gives more information on the two most significant reasons for attrition of CBH's - wear and subsequent melting from US Mint re-coining efforts, and exportation, "which passes temporarily into the vaults of the banks, and is soon afterwards again melted by refiners in foreign nations" (top of pg.67).
Does someone have a good source article about the Economite hoard? There is some mention of it in this thread - https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10686607
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
We had a great discussion about the Harmony society and the 19th century Economite hoard here.
You will find a link to Ted McAuley's superb article in the July 2004 John Reich Journal...a compelling, scholarly study on this fascinating story. It is worth the time to read.
While some hundred thousand bust halves were among those recovered around 1881 it appears they were excessively tarnished and abusively cleaned. Probably not examples of high grade survivors.
But my, what a fun story!
Lance.
The Bust Half Nut Club recently concluded an updated study on die marriage rarity and will publish results in the next edition of the JRCS journal. Watch for it.
Lance.
So. Commerce was facilitated with newly minted seated coinage while the earlier stuff rested in reserve bags, foreign piles on the way to melt, and some stateside bank vaults?