The only collectible specimen of the extremely rare 1822 half eagle, or $5 gold piece, received a phone bid of $6,200,000, which, inclusive of the buyer’s premium, would have equated to a $7,285,000 price realized, a bid surpassed among gold coins by only the 1933 double eagle $20 gold piece that brought $7,590,000 in 2002. The 1822 half eagle was retained by the consignor after it did not meet their reserve price. Only two other examples of this rarity exist, both in the Smithsonian Institution.
The only collectible specimen of the extremely rare 1822 half eagle, or $5 gold piece, received a phone bid of $6,200,000, which, inclusive of the buyer’s premium, would have equated to a $7,285,000 price realized, a bid surpassed among gold coins by only the 1933 double eagle $20 gold piece that brought $7,590,000 in 2002. The 1822 half eagle was retained by the consignor after it did not meet their reserve price. Only two other examples of this rarity exist, both in the Smithsonian Institution.
The bidding back then on the two big coins was a big organised show.
Just saw the e-mail. It's as if SB needed to respond to Heritage's sale of the Brasher doubloon. I'd have to think that the top bid from 2016 and the Brasher sale price are going to be heavily weighted parameters when it comes to figuring out what this will go for.
@scubafuel said:
I would rather have the Brasher. My prediction is that the 1822 will sell for under that Brasher price. Just for fun I’ll guess $7.5mm.
I wonder if any thought was given to holding off until next year to sell this fantastic coin in 2022. Doing would would allow promotions of the sale to tout the "200 hundred year anniversary" of the minting of the coin.
Maybe it could be sold at the January, 2022 FUN show (if it is allowed to take place).
@Boosibri said:
Would you rather have the MS65 Brasher or the 1822 $5?
Not sure. The MS65 Brasher is finest known, but one of five that could be added to a collection. It's also a much more famous coin than the 1822 $5, and there's no guarantee that one of the other four will be for sale during my lifetime. On the other hand, the 1822 $5 being offered is, for the sake of building a collection with money I don't have, unique.
Difficult, though irrelevant choice for me, but I'd probably lean toward the Brasher.
@SanctionII said:
I wonder if any thought was given to holding off until next year to sell this fantastic coin in 2022. Doing would would allow promotions of the sale to tout the "200 hundred year anniversary" of the minting of the coin.
Maybe it could be sold at the January, 2022 FUN show (if it is allowed to take place).
If you could arrange such a sale in the January 2022 FUN auction, I’d personally thank you on behalf of Heritage.😄
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I suspect that if I made this request to Stacks their response would be ........................., well ................ light years away from being remotely close to tepid.
I suspect that if I made this request to Stacks their response would be ........................., well ................ light years away from being remotely close to tepid.
I was hoping that you had considerably more pull than that.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A great rarity for sure, but I would have to pass on this one available example. I think the reeding marks on the cheek would prove too distracting to submit a serious bid.
At present, my preferred way of playing in the hobby (mostly collecting raw widgets at shops, at shows shows and at times online) places me squarely in the shallow end of the hobby pool.
As a result my "pull" in the hobby is nill.
I do have lots of fun though, including posting on the forums.
Doing so allows me to participate in hobby goings on across a wide spectrum and allows me to make contributions now and then (i.e. posting some photos, posting about new acquisitions and years ago posting threads on the events in the Langbord v. Uncle Sam lawsuit over the 10 1933 double eagles). I have made some acquaintances and even friends on the forums, plus have met fellow forum members at shows over the years (including you).
At present, my preferred way of playing in the hobby (mostly collecting raw widgets at shops, at shows shows and at times online) places me squarely in the shallow end of the hobby pool.
As a result my "pull" in the hobby is nill.
I do have lots of fun though, including posting on the forums.
Doing so allows me to participate in hobby goings on across a wide spectrum and allows me to make contributions now and then (i.e. posting some photos, posting about new acquisitions and years ago posting threads on the events in the Langbord v. Uncle Sam lawsuit over the 10 1933 double eagles). I have made some acquaintances and even friends on the forums, plus have met fellow forum members at shows over the years (including you).
I hope you continue to enjoy yourself and I was an avid reader of your Langbord posts!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
When only one of something is available to collect, that's the one I want. More Brasher doubloons available (unless struck on breast, which is a variety).
@thefinn said:
When only one of something is available to collect, that's the one I want. More Brasher doubloons available (unless struck on breast, which is a variety).
Are you saying that you care more about the rarity than anything else, such as beauty, condition history, etc.?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@thefinn said:
When only one of something is available to collect, that's the one I want. More Brasher doubloons available (unless struck on breast, which is a variety).
As a type collector, there are a lot of this type.
@SanctionII said:
I wonder if any thought was given to holding off until next year to sell this fantastic coin in 2022. Doing would would allow promotions of the sale to tout the "200 hundred year anniversary" of the minting of the coin.
Maybe it could be sold at the January, 2022 FUN show (if it is allowed to take place).
If you could arrange such a sale in the January 2022 FUN auction, I’d personally thank you on behalf of Heritage.😄
Thank you would be great. 0.1% of hammer would be even better.
@tradedollarnut said:
Not me. I just bought something really cool and don’t have an ipo windfall. Lol
Also not me, Im collecting Gem US gold coins. And I just bought something really cool as well.
This is definitely not Gem and only AU50.
This really belongs in @DLHansen's collection. We'll see if he can get it.
It has a great provenance already: Virgil Brand, Louis Eliasberg, Brent Pogue, and it will be great to see which additional name can be added to the list.
The fact that there is only one (outside the Smithsonian, as far as is known), makes this a unique piece. I think the final price will reflect this. Should be interesting. Cheers, RickO
@ricko said:
The fact that there is only one (outside the Smithsonian, as far as is known), makes this a unique piece. I think the final price will reflect this. Should be interesting. Cheers, RickO
Given that 17,796 were minted and many made their way to Europe where they were melted. I'd love to see some come out of the wood work
@Zoins... That is certainly a possibility.... Though, with the value of this coin, I would be surprised. Unless one or more are possessed by non-collectors as family heirlooms. Then, value likely is not even known to the owners. Cheers, RickO
@ricko said:
The fact that there is only one (outside the Smithsonian, as far as is known), makes this a unique piece. I think the final price will reflect this. Should be interesting. Cheers, RickO
That doesn’t make it a “unique piece”. It makes it the only one known to be available for sale. There’s a large difference between the two.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ricko said: @Zoins... That is certainly a possibility.... Though, with the value of this coin, I would be surprised. Unless one or more are possessed by non-collectors as family heirlooms. Then, value likely is not even known to the owners. Cheers, RickO
@tradedollarnut said:
Museums are known to let go of coins all the time
I've seen this for for smaller museums and historical societies, but has the Smithsonian ever let go of a coin?
Don't think so. The Mint cabinet traded for pieces in the 19th century, but wasn't under control of the Smithsonian then. ANS is regularly selling collection items on ebay (mostly low-priced stuff). It's much easier for private museums to sell material, all you need is board approval. Much more difficult for federal entities, it would have to go all the way up to the Secretary of the Interior. People at that level make billion dollar decisions, not million dollar ones. I saw one collection at a state college in NJ with some great items, but they'll never go anywhere, working the bureaucracy for a few hundred grand is a non-starter. Much easier to raise some fee $10 or so and create a lot more state revenue that way.
@tradedollarnut said:
Museums are known to let go of coins all the time
I've seen this for for smaller museums and historical societies, but has the Smithsonian ever let go of a coin?
Don't think so. The Mint cabinet traded for pieces in the 19th century, but wasn't under control of the Smithsonian then. ANS is regularly selling collection items on ebay (mostly low-priced stuff). It's much easier for private museums to sell material, all you need is board approval. Much more difficult for federal entities, it would have to go all the way up to the Secretary of the Interior. People at that level make billion dollar decisions, not million dollar ones. I saw one collection at a state college in NJ with some great items, but they'll never go anywhere, working the bureaucracy for a few hundred grand is a non-starter. Much easier to raise some fee $10 or so and create a lot more state revenue that way.
Universities are good to note. Both the University of Pennsylvania and Johns Hopkins University let go of good collections. Yale University still has a collection.
The coin is a top single coin for the ultimate “baller”. It’s always been worth multiples of the 1804 proof 10 and can easily be matched up against other great items that sold recently to figure out its “historical present value”.
With that being said , it’s cash value is probably around 5,000,000 and it’s catalogue value closer to 10,000,000.
And like the 1933 saint that sold , once it’s sold , the owner can ask whatever he chooses and never be undersold.
@ricko said:
The fact that there is only one (outside the Smithsonian, as far as is known), makes this a unique piece. I think the final price will reflect this. Should be interesting. Cheers, RickO
Given that 17,796 were minted and many made their way to Europe where they were melted. I'd love to see some come out of the wood work
Not sure the backstory is as compelling as some of the other +5M coins but nonetheless you ain't gonna have a shot very often with this one perhaps.
Good enough back story to have a book written about it. For those who have an issue with its quality---find a better one. As to whether it is unique---i'm ok with only the Smithsonian and myself owning an example of this coin
@Dwight_M said:
The coin is a top single coin for the ultimate “baller”. It’s always been worth multiples of the 1804 proof 10 and can easily be matched up against other great items that sold recently to figure out its “historical present value”.
With that being said , it’s cash value is probably around 5,000,000 and it’s catalogue value closer to 10,000,000.
Since the top 1804 proof 10 just sold for $5.3M, I'm curious to see how may multiples this sells for.
It will also be interesting to see how this compares to that and the recently sold Stickney Brasher.
And like the 1933 saint that sold, once it’s sold , the owner can ask whatever he chooses and never be undersold.
What an amazing coin and a mysterious buyer. I'm wondering when this will come back on the market.
Since there are 1+10 of 1933 DEs and just 1+2 of the 1833 half eagles, this will also be an interesting comparison in realized price.
Boosibri
Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Just got the email. I eagerly await my chance to bid. Wonder if it will go for more than my bidding limit?
Wonder if it will go for more than my bidding limit?
Plenty of time to call them and request an increase in your limit!
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Just about to post that
https://www.stacksbowers.com/News/Pages/PressReleases.aspx?ArticleID=Pogue-IV-Sale-Passed-16-Million
I wonder who are the major players?
Probably the usual suspects🤔
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
The bidding back then on the two big coins was a big organised show.
This one may eclipse the $10 million mark.
Just saw the e-mail. It's as if SB needed to respond to Heritage's sale of the Brasher doubloon. I'd have to think that the top bid from 2016 and the Brasher sale price are going to be heavily weighted parameters when it comes to figuring out what this will go for.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Would you rather have the MS65 Brasher or the 1822 $5?
Latin American Collection
I would rather have the Brasher. My prediction is that the 1822 will sell for under that Brasher price. Just for fun I’ll guess $7.5mm.
I would guess 8 but I agree with you
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I wonder if any thought was given to holding off until next year to sell this fantastic coin in 2022. Doing would would allow promotions of the sale to tout the "200 hundred year anniversary" of the minting of the coin.
Maybe it could be sold at the January, 2022 FUN show (if it is allowed to take place).
Probably the 1822. Even as a kid decades ago, I saw this coin as legendary.
Will there be a viewing? I’m no name non-player, but I’d love to see it in person.
I miss going to shows and holding million dollar rarities I’ll never own.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Not sure. The MS65 Brasher is finest known, but one of five that could be added to a collection. It's also a much more famous coin than the 1822 $5, and there's no guarantee that one of the other four will be for sale during my lifetime. On the other hand, the 1822 $5 being offered is, for the sake of building a collection with money I don't have, unique.
Difficult, though irrelevant choice for me, but I'd probably lean toward the Brasher.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
If you could arrange such a sale in the January 2022 FUN auction, I’d personally thank you on behalf of Heritage.😄
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
New record price for a coin I am thinking.
Mr. Feld.
I suspect that if I made this request to Stacks their response would be ........................., well ................ light years away from being remotely close to tepid.
I was hoping that you had considerably more pull than that.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A great rarity for sure, but I would have to pass on this one available example. I think the reeding marks on the cheek would prove too distracting to submit a serious bid.
Mr. Feld.
At present, my preferred way of playing in the hobby (mostly collecting raw widgets at shops, at shows shows and at times online) places me squarely in the shallow end of the hobby pool.
As a result my "pull" in the hobby is nill.
I do have lots of fun though, including posting on the forums.
Doing so allows me to participate in hobby goings on across a wide spectrum and allows me to make contributions now and then (i.e. posting some photos, posting about new acquisitions and years ago posting threads on the events in the Langbord v. Uncle Sam lawsuit over the 10 1933 double eagles). I have made some acquaintances and even friends on the forums, plus have met fellow forum members at shows over the years (including you).
I'm wondering if it makes it back to the previous auction level.
I do not see that happening.
Iconic for coin geeks.
Not sure the backstory is as compelling as some of the other +5M coins but nonetheless you ain't gonna have a shot very often with this one perhaps.
I hope you continue to enjoy yourself and I was an avid reader of your Langbord posts!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
When only one of something is available to collect, that's the one I want. More Brasher doubloons available (unless struck on breast, which is a variety).
Are you saying that you care more about the rarity than anything else, such as beauty, condition history, etc.?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
As a type collector, there are a lot of this type.
Still a great coin.
I'm picturing @DLHansen @privaterarecoincollector and @tradedollarnut in a cage match.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Not me. I just bought something really cool and don’t have an ipo windfall. Lol
Thank you would be great. 0.1% of hammer would be even better.
The bigger obstacle to me is the relative quality. I don't agree with this mindset but that's what it is.
It ain't gonna look good if they miss the reserve twice in a row.
Also not me, Im collecting Gem US gold coins. And I just bought something really cool as well.
This is definitely not Gem and only AU50.
This really belongs in @DLHansen's collection. We'll see if he can get it.
It has a great provenance already: Virgil Brand, Louis Eliasberg, Brent Pogue, and it will be great to see which additional name can be added to the list.
Here's the TrueView:
The fact that there is only one (outside the Smithsonian, as far as is known), makes this a unique piece. I think the final price will reflect this. Should be interesting. Cheers, RickO
Given that 17,796 were minted and many made their way to Europe where they were melted. I'd love to see some come out of the wood work
@Zoins... That is certainly a possibility.... Though, with the value of this coin, I would be surprised. Unless one or more are possessed by non-collectors as family heirlooms. Then, value likely is not even known to the owners. Cheers, RickO
That doesn’t make it a “unique piece”. It makes it the only one known to be available for sale. There’s a large difference between the two.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, that or they are still hidden away.
@MFeld ... Valid point Mark... Often overlooked... As @Zoins said, there could be more hiding in Europe. Cheers, RickO
Museums are known to let go of coins all the time
I've seen this for for smaller museums and historical societies, but has the Smithsonian ever let go of a coin?
Don't think so. The Mint cabinet traded for pieces in the 19th century, but wasn't under control of the Smithsonian then. ANS is regularly selling collection items on ebay (mostly low-priced stuff). It's much easier for private museums to sell material, all you need is board approval. Much more difficult for federal entities, it would have to go all the way up to the Secretary of the Interior. People at that level make billion dollar decisions, not million dollar ones. I saw one collection at a state college in NJ with some great items, but they'll never go anywhere, working the bureaucracy for a few hundred grand is a non-starter. Much easier to raise some fee $10 or so and create a lot more state revenue that way.
Interesting. A coin and auction worth following. Somewhat historic.
If someone donated this coin to the Smithsonian, would this person be famous or infamous?
Universities are good to note. Both the University of Pennsylvania and Johns Hopkins University let go of good collections. Yale University still has a collection.
The coin is a top single coin for the ultimate “baller”. It’s always been worth multiples of the 1804 proof 10 and can easily be matched up against other great items that sold recently to figure out its “historical present value”.
With that being said , it’s cash value is probably around 5,000,000 and it’s catalogue value closer to 10,000,000.
And like the 1933 saint that sold , once it’s sold , the owner can ask whatever he chooses and never be undersold.
I suspect the majority of that mintage carried a different date. I have no idea but it has happened with the mint a few times.
Good enough back story to have a book written about it. For those who have an issue with its quality---find a better one. As to whether it is unique---i'm ok with only the Smithsonian and myself owning an example of this coin
Since the top 1804 proof 10 just sold for $5.3M, I'm curious to see how may multiples this sells for.
It will also be interesting to see how this compares to that and the recently sold Stickney Brasher.
What an amazing coin and a mysterious buyer. I'm wondering when this will come back on the market.
Since there are 1+10 of 1933 DEs and just 1+2 of the 1833 half eagles, this will also be an interesting comparison in realized price.