MS60 Is a strange grade...
Meltdown
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I picked this up a couple years back... small anacs holder graded MS60
My pics make it appear cleaned.
Clearly there are some "scuff lines" maybe from an old cleaning, cabinet friction? ... I'm not sure.
I love the blue though... this one is getting cracked for the type set album as soon as I find my snips!
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Comments
This looks like a good album coin. No reason not to enjoy it raw in your Dansco.
In the early years of third party grading, a coin either got slabbed with a straight grade or, if it had a problem, it was returned in a flip euphemistically referred to as a "body bag" by coin dealers and collectors. Sometimes a coin would have minor problems such as hairlines and would be silently net graded and slabbed with a straight grade. These coins frequently got the MS60 grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I like your coin also. This grade always confused me also. But looking at your coin, it does appear uncirculated. If cleaned, why would someone just do these small spots and not be more uniform. On the obv, the scuff is focus on the high points. Not sure how how these dimes were distributed, but for Morgans, if they were in the canvas bags of 1,000, don't doubt they were thrown and hit dirt, bank floors, rail cars, etc more than a few times going from Mint to final destination which would scuff the coins next to the bag surface. 60 lbs hitting a hard surface would surely cause a lot of friction on these coins. Just MHO.
That doesn't look like just cleaning. But even if it is, in answer to your question - quite simply, there might have been something (no longer there) on isolated areas of the coin.
The grade doesn't usually confuse me. If a coin is uncirculated or Proof and has enough and/or bad enough flaws, a grade of 60 seems just as appropriate as a higher grade would be for a better coin. Here's the tricky part...at what point is a coin in bad enough shape to consider a grade of 60, but not so bad as to award it a details grade, instead? Asked differently, how much net grading is acceptable, in order to still arrive at a straight/numerical grade of 60?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It can also be a fairly attractive grade.
I have found that coins graded MS60, MS61 and MS62 tend to be unappealing to me and/or over-graded AU's. they may be free of problems that preclude a BB, but I usually find them to be unattractive. the OP is no exception and I would choose not to own it.
As a photographer, I would suggest that both of those coins have benefitted greatly from favorable lighting angles.
I don’t see much distinction between MS60 and MS61. We could easily live without one of these.
You don't like the toning? It has luster like crazy and blue is a unique look for sure. For this coin in particular, eye appeal and the affordablility on the grade is exactly why I bought it. Those obverse swipes stand out in the photos but are muted to my tired eyes in hand.
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In most cases I'd rather have an attractive AU58 coin than an MS60 or 61 coin.
Weird ass grade for sure ...
For those of you who think all MS61's are ugly, beaten up, unappealing or otherwise severely compromised think again.
Lance.
60.7 is even stranger!
Ms 60? I would love to hit that ms platuea. Rather than being stuck in the lower level of AU, no? Like mentioned in the earlier posts. Sometimes, you have to look at the "glass being half FULL", instead of "being half EMPTY".
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You don't like the toning?
I think the color is pretty, but no, I don't especially like the toning on the coin. besides, I believe that if I buy a coin based on one of it's attributes, while overlooking other more glaring attributes, that I'll regret it at some point. if that coins suits someone else, fine, it just doesn't suit me.
when I made my first post I knew 100% that members would in short order post MS60/61/62 coins to refute my thoughts. the overwhelming majority of such coins are not very nice but there are exceptions to the rule.
I agree in general that MS 60 coins are rough, baggy coins, by definition.
But I also think it may have been used at times as a catch-all grade for otherwise nice Uncs that had an issue that the grader didn’t like. I think this is where some of the exceptions that keets mentioned come from. In any event, as a budget minded collector building a 7070 with a penchant for first and last year of issues, this one fit my bill just fine back in the late '80's.
The presumed staple scratch over Liberty's shoulder didn't bother me too much.
And no, I won't be blowing it out at 10 back of 60 Bid anytime soon LOL:
An example of a conservative technical 60 that, in my opinion, isn't a 60. Maybe a "60+" or a 60★
--Severian the Lame
FINE. I will offer FULL greysheet bid on that sucker!
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I have a number of old holdered ms60 that are way under graded, years ago it was looked upon much differently than it is today imo
MS-60 used to be a very unusual grade. You seldom saw it on a holder, at on NGC and PCGS holders. I have only have a couple of MS-60 graded coins. This is the best of them, an 1839-D quarter eagle. It's a tough coin to photograph.
I like the way some MS 60 coins look, others I wouldn't want if you gave them to me.
PCGS has graded 37 1883 NO Cent nickels MS60. Number 37 was graded back in 2010. Does not seem to be a grade given out often (as an example, the number of MS67's graded has gone from 16 to 83 in the same time frame)
I did buy one of the MS60's when it showed up just to put it in grading set.
This.
Same for MS-62 sometimes.
it's been debated on many threads.
there are plenty of AU coins that are more attractive then low end MS
I wholeheartedly agree with the statement above.
I could say the same about grades up to MS-64 . I actually just got an 80-O Morgan back from PCGS that graded MS-60. the coin is really nice . The only think i can think of is the fields have quite a few hairlines which you only see when tilting the coin at a certain angle. I dont really care what "grade" they assigned to it. i like the coin much better than many much higher graded coins. The coin is attractive irregardless of the number on the label.
For the most part, it has already happened. MS60 is seen more today as a grading oddity than as a legitimate grade.
Many people collect MS63 or better coins, and a lot of people also collect AU58 or lower grade coins, but the number of people who collect MS60 to MS62 coins is minimal. Years ago, when I searched through dealers coins in slabs, I never even looked at coins in grades MS60-62, because as others have said, 60-62 coins are usually not attractive.
Perhaps MS-60 to 62 coins are not attractive to some, but if you collect early US or coins from the Charlotte and Dahlonega Mints, those grades might be the best you can afford or even the best there is. In those categories, lower grade MS pieces are often pretty special.
It wasn't as strange as when first introduced.
BY ANACS standards for a while, your uncirculated coins were either MS60, MS65 or MS70. Eventually 63 and 67 were added.
I do understand that there are many coins that have the lower grade that have a much better eye appeal than the higher grade coins. But in saying that, we're talking mainly about the grade factor. Esp. when it comes to the value. Ex: a MS 70 or a PF 70 will ALWAYS be the optimal coin when it comes to value and/eye appeal. Than that MS 69 or PF 69. Even if the 69 coin, does look prettier. All of a sudden, that 70 has the eyes shifted towards the numbers. Just my 2 cents.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.For me, the MS61 and 62's served a purpose to my collection and budget. I used to have an almost complete set of Morgans in both a slab and raw in my Dansco album. The slabs that I kept were the better grades and better looking coins. Most of the common and even semi-key dates for the Dansco were a slabbed 62's with a sprinkling of MS61 and a few 63s for the very common 'S' dates since they were only priced a couple of dollars more. I was selective with the 61 and 62's, but for the harder dates the jump to 63 was significant and they were going in an album. My 80 - O was also a slabbed MS60 that looks nice for the $69 I paid. Could/would not drop $300+ for a 63.
irregardless
really??
here's a little joke about this non-word, and actually the only way it can be properly used. During the Three-Mile Island nuclear incident, the Governor of Pennsylvania ordered the PA National Guard into that city for much need help and protection. This act, of course, rendered Erie Guardless for a brief period of time.
For my first post, here’s one that’s CAC approved.
We haven't seen the reverse. But what we have seen deserves a gold sticker.
Lance.
This is one of the better "buy the coin..." threads. IMO. Some great examples.
An MS 60 coin is one that was beaten up by the mint not the public.
I agree, not all MS60 are terrible and for a small time collector, you can find some nice examples. Here is 1 of 3 MS60 coins I bot, the other 2 were in old ANACS white holders. This is in an NGC Gen 6 holder. Looks like this date has appreciated quite nicely over the years, and if Auction prices are accurate, appreciated 300%.
Well, MS60 sticker grade is out the window now! Here she is cracked out from the tomb and now in the Dansco 7070.
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I had a $2.5 Indian that was ANACS AU-55. Sent it to PCGS, figured it would cross at 53. Came back PCGS MS60. Granted, because of the incuse design, I have a really tough time grading them. I wondered whether the 60 would help or hurt the price. It's a common date and price guide was same for both grades. When I sold it, it "went up" because of the price of gold, so I guess all was good.
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Here’s the reverse of my 1884 MS60 CAC Morgan Dollar.
There's no such word but if there was it would mean the opposite of what's implied. My father-in-law used the "word" all the time. Drove me crazy.
My father-in-law used the "word" all the time. Drove me crazy.
yeah, it was a favorite of my Father and one of my Sisters still uses it........................and I remind her!!!
Hey! Coastaljerseyguy! Your 1879 S is has a reverse of 1878. Nice pick.
Thanks shortnock. As I was looking to complete my Morgan set with some of the major VAMs included, saw this on EBAY 15 years ago. I liked the slight magenta toning, and the few scratches on the obverse didn't bother me. The seller had it listed as the Rev 78 and I won it for only $100. I was going to break out for my Dansco, but changed my mind and kept it in the NGC slab - glad I did. Greysheet price back then for an MS 60 was only $85 bid - MS63 was $300 but 64 was $1,000. Looks like MS60 is ~ $400 today.
I really like this MS60. For some reason MS60 classic commemorative halves appeal to me and I would not mind having a full set of MS60 classic commems, but there doesn't seem to be that many of them out there that are straight graded .