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Educate me please, how is the Peace Dollar MS64?

Joe_360Joe_360 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

Looking at 1922D PD on eBay and saw this, please tell me how it's MS64? No eye appeal IMO. Looks like a finger-print at the date/neck. The letters on the reverse look illegible. What am I missing, Thanks

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-D-Peace-Silver-One-Dollar-Coin-Certified-by-NGC-as-MS64-UNC-A10/193866937425?hash=item2d235eb451:g:XlMAAOSw~n9e0ZQS

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know if can educate you, but I will say this;

    That coin has serious luster. If not for the somewhat negative, not for everyone toning and the average strike and the pin scar in the obverse field, that thing is a monster. Of course all those strikes against it make it a different kind of monster! :D

    Strike is not a totally grade defining factor, especially at MS64 and below. Neither is neutral eye appeal.

    That coin to me, is carried by it's luster. Of course, I don't see it as a 64 (I can see easily se it as a 63 though, so 64 is not a stretch), but I don't have it in hand either.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like an ugly MS63 in the pictures. It might look better or worse, in hand.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is why we have CAC stickers,,,,, this coin does not have one,,,,,,,,,, enough said,,,,,,,

    GrandAm :)
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    ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks pretty clean to me. Not baggy, just not appealing.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @GRANDAM said:
    That is why we have CAC stickers,,,,, this coin does not have one,,,,,,,,,, enough said,,,,,,,

    Not enough said. We don’t know what the coon looks like in hand. And even if it’s a dog, there are countless CAC-worthy coins that haven’t been submitted to CAC. ANd there are many other very nice coins that have been and didn’t receive stickers.

    OK, enough said as far as I am concerned,,,, please feel free to add your rebuttal as you always do.
    We can't all have the wisdom of "The Great Feldini"

    GrandAm :)
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GRANDAM said:

    @MFeld said:

    @GRANDAM said:
    That is why we have CAC stickers,,,,, this coin does not have one,,,,,,,,,, enough said,,,,,,,

    Not enough said. We don’t know what the coon looks like in hand. And even if it’s a dog, there are countless CAC-worthy coins that haven’t been submitted to CAC. ANd there are many other very nice coins that have been and didn’t receive stickers.

    OK, enough said as far as I am concerned,,,, please feel free to add your rebuttal as you always do.
    We can't all have the wisdom of "The Great Feldini"

    It doesn’t take much wisdom at all to observe what I did in my previous post. But please feel free to continue to be as sarcastic as you wish.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Although I consider that coin to be ugly squared, it does have some good detail. IMO, the picture denotes a 63, in hand, could be better. For me, the eye appeal cancels it as a candidate for acquisition. Cheers, RickO

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    Joe_360Joe_360 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    It looks like an ugly MS63 in the pictures. It might look better or worse, in hand.

    Yes, but even the seller states, “Graded by NGC as MS64 Please Look At Photos For Condition" so makes think that it does not looks so good in hand...

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    Joe_360Joe_360 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Although I consider that coin to be ugly squared, it does have some good detail. IMO, the picture denotes a 63, in hand, could be better. For me, the eye appeal cancels it as a candidate for acquisition. Cheers, RickO

    But RickO, it it just a bad picture the e Plu look illegible...? e pluribus unum

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    HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe a candidate for NCS

    Higashiyama
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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not sure what to say about the OP's assessment.

    Agree that eye appeal is a little challenging on that coin. But to raise the fingerprint as a grading issue? I always understood that fingerprints and other toning/tarnish do not necessarily factor into grading (except maybe at 70).

    Also, I think the pics are not the best.

    Lastly, MS64 may have slightly different meanings depending on who is printing the label. ;)

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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    CAC'ing a common midgrade Peace dollar is silly.

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    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Got to wonder how many different 63 holders that such a coin has been in. Could be anywhere from zero to many.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Spoke too soon.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have found that any money spent on CAC or QA Check Stickers is more than made up when time to re-sell them,,,,,,,,, sometimes many multiples of the cost of doing so.

    GrandAm :)
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    nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why some would’ve bothereded grading this in the first place is beyond me!

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

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    JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pics can make a bad coin look good or a good coin look bad.
    Some post misleading pics on purpose others because they aren’t thinking.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Joe_360 .... It is a bad picture to try to evaluate the coin...and the 'weak' letters on the reverse may be better than they appear... Or could be grease filled die. Just cannot determine much from the pictures. Cheers, RickO

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    Joe_360Joe_360 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2021 12:06PM

    @JRocco said:
    Pics can make a bad coin look good or a good coin look bad.
    Some post misleading pics on purpose others because they aren’t thinking.

    Top Rated Seller, so you would believe that they know how to take pictures, so why post bad ones?

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It doesn't surprise me at all. I see too many NGC over graded coins. That's why you need to pay discount on most NGC graded coins.

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Judging that coin from those photos is probably a mistake.

    Sure, it probably isn't for everyone, but I can't see any particular reason it shouldn't be in a 64 holder. It doesn't look like a particularly nice 64, and maybe on another day it would grade 63 - no big deal. PCGS Price Guide says $100 for 64 and $135 for MS64. This coin in a 64 holder probably sells for 63 money anyhow.

    Casting aspersions on all coins in NGC holders or all coins without CAC stickers because of this single example is a bit over the top, n'est-ce pas?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @GRANDAM said:
    That is why we have CAC stickers,,,,, this coin does not have one,,,,,,,,,, enough said,,,,,,,

    Not enough said. We don’t know what the (edited for typo) coin looks like in hand. And even if it’s a dog, there are countless CAC-worthy coins that haven’t been submitted to CAC. ANd there are many other very nice coins that have been and didn’t receive stickers.

    Here's a 64+ with a CAC. Is it much better?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-D-Peace-Silver-Dollar-NGC-MS64-plus-CAC-1/133528578100?hash=item1f16ec6834:g:TV0AAOSwnZJfbOvd

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    Got to wonder how many different 63 holders that such a coin has been in. Could be anywhere from zero to many.

    Why would you break out a 63 and repeatedly pay $35 trying to sneak it into a 64? There's no money to be made there.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2021 1:05PM

    @nwcoast said:
    Why some would’ve bothereded grading this in the first place is beyond me!

    Well, it's a $35 coin raw and $100 coin in a 64 holder, so....

    I'd also remind everyone - in case they need it - if you are a bulk submitter sending in hundreds of these, it is pretty cheap to get them in a slab.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Joe_360 said:

    @MFeld said:
    It looks like an ugly MS63 in the pictures. It might look better or worse, in hand.

    Yes, but even the seller states, “Graded by NGC as MS64 Please Look At Photos For Condition" so makes think that it does not looks so good in hand...

    When I write that it's just because I'm too lazy to spend a lot of time describing a coin that I'm selling for Greysheet bid. I can sell it sight unseen with no pictures for about the same price.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Judging that coin from those photos is probably a mistake.

    Sure, it probably isn't for everyone, but I can't see any particular reason it shouldn't be in a 64 holder. It doesn't look like a particularly nice 64, and maybe on another day it would grade 63 - no big deal. PCGS Price Guide says $100 for 64 and $135 for MS64. This coin in a 64 holder probably sells for 63 money anyhow.

    Casting aspersions on all coins in NGC holders or all coins without CAC stickers because of this single example is a bit over the top, n'est-ce pas?

    I agree with this assessment.

    I don't see any reason not to call that a 64. It is not very marky. Strike and eye appeal really have to be God-awful to affect the grade of a 64.

    It ain't in a 69 holder, folks. It's a modest 64.

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The pics look kind of dark.

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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Correct me if I'm wrong....that's the "no UNITED" BS-501 Variety! :D

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    TiborTibor Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin is unappealing, so is the huge finger print.

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    CocoinutCocoinut Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a lousy photo, the toning isn't very attractive (to me), and there are abrasions running down Liberty's cheek, which probably accounts for the grade. On the plus side, there aren't a lot of other marks on it, the strike is decent, and it doesn't have the myriad die cracks that plague so many 22-D and 23-D dollars. That said, I would pass on this coin, based on what I can see. It's a common date, and better examples are plentiful.

    Countdown to completion of my Mercury Set: 2 coins. My growing Lincoln Set: Finally completed!
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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kinda like the before and after images my wife shows me on some new miracle cream.

    I point out the difference in lighting...soft light/harsh light

    The photographer in me says this is greatly aided by lighting. I have a few dimes like this Peace Dollar. Pass for me...

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That latent print is just too distracting for me. I think you can do better. Peace Roy

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    AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The pictures are really bad and that interferes with any fair evaluation I think. However, it looks as if it has a large scratch near her forehead. If that is the case, is IMO, not even a candidate for a numerical grade. But it might be the holder.

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Without the ability to hold the coin and rotate it in the light to see it's amazing luster, prevents anyone from assessing it's quality. Luster reigns king, so I've been educated many times on this forum. As far as its desireability, yuck. But different strokes for different folks. Photos are for great photographers who can actually accurately capture a coins look. This is lost on many of us.
    Jim


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