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Ranking problem coins in terms of impairment
logger7
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How do you rank problem coins?
Cleaned; scratched?
Does "altered surfaces" rank as more serious, especially when it cannot be remedied, as due to surface substance that can be removed?
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I will only buy straight graded coins so I don’t think about it much.
It’s not so much the impairment but the severity and location. So it’s a three dimensional game for me.
I rank them by looking at them, as there’s no way to categorize the problems neatly.
As you know, among other considerations, there are degrees of cleaning, sizes and placement of scratches and differences in the types and appearances of altered surfaces.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Anything holed or plugged typically stands out to me as "worse off" than the rest.
Other than that, I agree with @MFeld that it is about degrees--How harsh is the cleaning or polishing? Is it just a light wipe that would be easier to forgive? Does the coin have a small rim ding or something worse on the rim, such as mounting?
Didn't PCGS and NGC used to not even encapsulate "altered surfaces" coins, even after they started slabbing other problem coins, such as cleaned, etc., AT coins were deemed too serious?
Holed is a major defect. I guess cut in half would worse. As for cleaned or polished, it's all a matter of severity. It can't really be classified in neat little boxes.
In the early days of PCGS, problem coins came back in what were euphemistically called "body bags".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I didn't know about that but others have said these are one of the more acceptable ones because sometimes it can be hard to tell and some of these are the ones that have a chance to straight grade.
I categorize coins as either "I want it." or "Not for me.".... Keep it simple.
Cheers, RickO
Holed coins are in a category of their own for me similar to a counter stamp. It was done on purpose and usually for a purpose or use.
Lafayette Grading Set
Some holed coins are cool.
Of course not "worth" the same as a non holed coin, but still nice.
How easy is it to see. Harder to see the less effect it has on me.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
It appears that even presently, NGC won’t encapsulate certain “altered surface” coins.
The below is quoted from this web page: https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/coins-we-grade/not-encapsulated/
“A similar notation, “Altered Surfaces,” indicates a coin whose surfaces have been deceptively altered (for example, a “Mint State” coin is made to resemble a “Proof” coin). Coins with altered surface will be returned raw and the full grading fee will apply.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A coin with a scratch is much better than a cleaned coin or tooled coin in my opinion
Like everyone, I try to avoid "problem" coins but sometimes, tradeoffs are necessary.
This is a recent purchase of mine, one of four examples in private hands (11 known in total) with a collecting provenance dating back to a Grand Duke of Russia from the 1860s (grandson of Tsar Nikolas I).
The style is phenomenal, it's lustrous, well-centered, high grade, high relief. The only real downside is a scratch on the obverse.
I debated with myself for if it still made sense to buy or if the scratch "kills" it and ultimately opted to go for it, especially because the second-best example still has numerous pock marks in the reverse field.
So, my takeaway is that, if the pros outweigh the cons and other examples also have problems, it's worth buying. I can understand why some people wouldn't want it and that's a risk I'm willing to take as I love the coin.
For reference, here's the comparable example: it cost more than 2x than mine, indicating that the market feels "marks" are less of a problem than "scratches", but I'm happy anyway:
Perhaps that is because they got burned on a few altered surface coins, which they slabbed as genuine, which turned out to be counterfeit. A certain 1803 half cent comes to mind. The way it was caught was that an experienced collector saw that the piece was sharp in an area on the reverse that always weakly struck. The Chinese counterfeiter strengthened that area when he was making his copy dies.
Altering the surface makes the counterfeiter’s easier because they can scrape off some of the surface imperfections.
I'm thinking of an AT Morgan I had returned; looked at it with a 75 watt bulb, rotating it and the luster and surfaces were weird like little pixies of star dust on the surface. Reverse was ok. Not a rare coin so the motive is unknown.
For me the least problematic would be minor flaws where the coin would grade, a light scratch, especially old one, an old cleaning or a light cleaning that might tone in a Wayte Raymond holder after a while.
More serious would be harshly cleaned, whizzed, lasered gold and other things that cannot be remedied ever. Altered surfaces could cover some of those things though I have seen NGC holder whizzed coins. PCGS can call those "smoothed". Then there is rim damage which can be hard to detect. Then you have actual loss of the coin's metal with serious cuts or holes. Not sure those are even "coins" when they have been used as jewelry or scrapped.