2021 ASE price

scooter25

So I have decided to start getting the ASE’s (via subscriptions) from the mint and the first one (2021 W Proof) is about to go through at $73 from the US Mint. Looking through eBay auctions this coin from years past is only selling for 50-60$. Am I missing something? Should I not but it from the mint and wait to just get it on eBay? Or will this one demand a premium being the last one with this reverse?

air4mdc

I wised up years ago and stopped my subscription of the ASE. Isn’t $ 73 like a 45-50 $ premium? I lost track of the price of bullion recently because I only care about making money in the stock market. The USM is a gimmicky racket. Save your money, invest your money or actually buy collectible coins that would offer a return someday......maybe. If you want to buy silver, buy bullion ASEs.

Morpheus1967

They (the US Mint) jacked the prices starting late last year.

Onastone

Silver has gone up too. But prices from the mint have really gone up.

jmlanzaf

@scooter25 said:
So I have decided to start getting the ASE’s (via subscriptions) from the mint and the first one (2021 W Proof) is about to go through at $73 from the US Mint. Looking through eBay auctions this coin from years past is only selling for 50-60$. Am I missing something? Should I not but it from the mint and wait to just get it on eBay? Or will this one demand a premium being the last one with this reverse?

Honestly, 95+% of Mint products are cheaper in the secondary market. You may have to wait a year or two for the prices to find their level, but there are very few Mint products that sell for more a year or two later.

[Note, before someone says it: sometimes bullion increases make it seem like value went up. For example Proof silver eagles at $40 to $50 on the secondary market is higher than they used to sell for from the Mint 15 years ago. But that is really due to silver being $15 higher than it was, not an appreciation of the numismatic premium on the coin.]

ricko

I do not buy many mint products anymore. Mainly due to the high price and shortly available cheaper on the secondary market. I have purchased a few items I liked and wanted new without waiting. Cheers, RickO

Jimnight

I never got into collecting the ASE. I do like the looks of them though.

bsshog40

I collected the ASE's up until this year. The mint prices are why I have now stopped.

Cougar1978

I got a slabbed CHN 2014 PCGS 70 1 0z Panda off the Bay the other day for $52. Looks real nice in my PCGS inventory app too.

Not buyer or pay that much on op coin. $73 seems too much on that. I haven’t bought from USM in years.

Goldminers

Will finish Type 1 designs and done with silver and gold eagles, The Mint no longer serves the public with fair pricing, it has in some ways become another overpriced TV show.

If there was some higher level of face value seigniorage it would help. A silver eagle is not worth one dollar, it should be $20 or so to be realistic. The 5 ounce ATB is a joke at 25 cents, and should be $100. The gold eagle should be $1,000 face and maybe there would be some more interest, as there is just too much downside using face values from basically 100 years ago.

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

I'm an idiot, so I will be buying a handful of em 🙃

coastaljerseyguy

But doesn't buying directly from the Mint give you the shot at getting a PF70DCAM, which trade much higher than $73? I know probably 99% of the ASE's are PF68/69, but there is always the chance you get that 1%. I wondered if you stuck with the enrollments you moved up in the pecking order of the ASE's coming off the assembly line. I have been enrolled since 2000 and hope I get the earlier minted coin vs the 50,000 coin minted.

Mgarmy

I will get one from the mint. Send it to our host who will give me a 69 and then I will buy a 70 from the bay...rinse and repeat..I am an idiot.

1630Boston

@ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
I'm an idiot, so I will be buying a handful of em 🙃

You are a backwards collector

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

@1630Boston said:

@ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
I'm an idiot, so I will be buying a handful of em 🙃

You are a backwards collector

could not be more true 🤓

also love how I make that comment, and this is my next notification 😂😂

don't try to boost my ego, Collectors Universe - I know I'm an idiot!! ☺

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

@Mgarmy said:
I will get one from the mint. Send it to our host who will give me a 69 and then I will buy a 70 from the bay...rinse and repeat..I am an idiot.

im in good company then 😊

1630Boston

Congrats Master Collector @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

🙏🙏🙏 @1630Boston

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

I still don't understand the $2 price differentiation between the standalone ASE W proof and the ASE W proof in the congrats set; must be the packaging for the congrats set cost more?

I have no idea why [superstition?], but ill be picking up a few of the standalone and a few of the congrats --- I've got a niece graduating high school this year and heading off to college and want to gift her a congrats for that milestone

jmlanzaf

@coastaljerseyguy said:
But doesn't buying directly from the Mint give you the shot at getting a PF70DCAM, which trade much higher than $73? I know probably 99% of the ASE's are PF68/69, but there is always the chance you get that 1%. I wondered if you stuck with the enrollments you moved up in the pecking order of the ASE's coming off the assembly line. I have been enrolled since 2000 and hope I get the earlier minted coin vs the 50,000 coin minted.

There's a number of misconceptions here.

The proof silver eagles are ALL DCAM.

If you look at the pop numbers on 2020 proof eagles - 80% of them are 70s not 1%.

The don't fulfill themselves off the assembly line. They ship coins out to their fulfillment provider. The 1st coin the provider gets could well be the last one off the assembly line.

70s do not trade much higher than $73.
The current price on 2020s is around $130.
The price of a 2019 70 DCAM are under $100.
The price of a 2018 70 DCAM is around $80.

If you want a 70 DCAM, buy one already holdered. $73 + $40 in slabbing/shipping fees is $113 with a 20-25% chance of getting a 69. If you buy a 70 DCAM, you have 100% chance of getting a 70DCAM.

JBK

Buy from the mint if you want a fresh one that has not been manhandled or cherrypicked. I did that for years and to a lesser extent still do.

With a few spectacular exceptions, most mint products will go down in value as they reach the secondary market.

That truth, combined with ever-higher prices, has led me to frequentky procrastinate long enough that most issues have sold out. I have been less and less upset when that happens.

WAYNEAS

@ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
I'm an idiot, so I will be buying a handful of em 🙃

Congrats on becoming a "Master Collector"
Well deserved
Wayne

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

🙏🙏🙏 @WAYNEAS

coastaljerseyguy

Never bot a graded ASE but I was also thinking of waiting the 2 years to get cheaper since the Mint has raised the price too much over the years. Do you think 80% of all ASE's minted are 70DCAM, or the pops just mean 80% of what folks send in to get graded are 70DCAM? I would think Dealers have a good eye to not send in any that wouldn't have a good shot and wasting their money as you mentioned.
When I view EBAY for buying ASE's in original packaging, there seems to be a range in their look and appeal, albeit small, since most are 69's. But there are some that jump out as DCAM. Although technically all ASE proofs are DCAM, I think the 70 DCAM's are in the minority. Maybe it is just me. Seems it is not just photography skills although maybe some are.

JBK

@coastaljerseyguy said:
Do you think 80% of all ASE's minted are 70DCAM, or the pops just mean 80% of what folks send in to get graded are 70DCAM? I would think Dealers have a good eye to not send in any that wouldn't have a good shot and wasting their money as you mentioned.

I suspect this has some impact on the high population of 70s.

cagcrisp

@Goldminers said:
Will finish Type 1 designs and done with silver and gold eagles, The Mint no longer serves the public with fair pricing, it has in some ways become another overpriced TV show.

If there was some higher level of face value seigniorage it would help. A silver eagle is not worth one dollar, it should be $20 or so to be realistic. The 5 ounce ATB is a joke at 25 cents, and should be $100. The gold eagle should be $1,000 face and maybe there would be some more interest, as there is just too much downside using face values from basically 100 years ago.

There is no seigniorage on precious metals...

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:

@coastaljerseyguy said:
Do you think 80% of all ASE's minted are 70DCAM, or the pops just mean 80% of what folks send in to get graded are 70DCAM? I would think Dealers have a good eye to not send in any that wouldn't have a good shot and wasting their money as you mentioned.

I suspect this has some impact on the high population of 70s.

Probably. They also might submit them 70 only. But the yield of 70s on those is quite high which is why they don't carry huge premiums.

Swampboy

I stopped buying "mint products made for collectors" from the mint and I've never looked back.
I can always get MS ASEs for my Dansco from a dealer or a show

abcde12345

@Jimnight said:
I never got into collecting the ASE. I do like the looks of them though.

scooter25

Just gonna do it this year and see what the results are. Don’t plan on sending them in but who knows, maybe I’ll pull the trigger and send them in along with my 50th anniversary Kennedy’s and see what I get. Live and learn I suppose.

Goldminers

@cagcrisp said:

@Goldminers said:
Will finish Type 1 designs and done with silver and gold eagles, The Mint no longer serves the public with fair pricing, it has in some ways become another overpriced TV show.

If there was some higher level of face value seigniorage it would help. A silver eagle is not worth one dollar, it should be $20 or so to be realistic. The 5 ounce ATB is a joke at 25 cents, and should be $100. The gold eagle should be $1,000 face and maybe there would be some more interest, as there is just too much downside using face values from basically 100 years ago.

There is no seigniorage on precious metals...

Is there a law that prevents precious metals from seigniorage? There is even such a thing as negative seigniorage. The cent and nickel now have negative seigniorage as the cost to produce is now higher than their face value.

Obviously the government prefers positive seigniorage, and considers it as revenue.

If the Mint sells a 2021 silver dollar for $75, and it costs them $25 for the silver and another $25 to mint and distribute it, I think they do earn $25 in seigniorage, as revenue.

It is not being done, but if the Federal Reserve and Treasury would allow the legal tender silver dollar to state a face value of $100, it could have even more seigniorage. Every clad quarter we spend costs 5 cents to make, and yet it is worth 25 cents. I don't see the real difference if a silver dollar costs $50 to mint, and were to state a face value of $100.

cagcrisp

@Goldminers said:

@cagcrisp said:

@Goldminers said:
Will finish Type 1 designs and done with silver and gold eagles, The Mint no longer serves the public with fair pricing, it has in some ways become another overpriced TV show.

If there was some higher level of face value seigniorage it would help. A silver eagle is not worth one dollar, it should be $20 or so to be realistic. The 5 ounce ATB is a joke at 25 cents, and should be $100. The gold eagle should be $1,000 face and maybe there would be some more interest, as there is just too much downside using face values from basically 100 years ago.

There is no seigniorage on precious metals...

" Obviously the government prefers positive seigniorage, and considers it as revenue. "

All seigniorage can do is offset borrowing cost for the Federal government. Seigniorage can't be used to pay down the Federal debt or used as a line item on the federal budget.

" If the Mint sells a 2021 silver dollar for $75, and it costs them $25 for the silver and another $25 to mint and distribute it, I think they do earn $25 in seigniorage, as revenue."

In your example there would be $0 in seigniorage and the United States Mint would report $25 in net income. The Mint does report Net income or Net loss on precious metals, however, there is no such thing as seigniorage on any precious metal product whether it is numismatic or bullion.

"It is not being done, but if the Federal Reserve and Treasury would allow the legal tender silver dollar to state a face value of $100, it could have even more seigniorage."

There is no seigniorage for any precious metal product. Putting a $100 face value for a silver dollar would have no effect on seigniorage. It would put the Federal Reserve in a precarious position...

chesterb

@Jimnight said:
I never got into collecting the ASE. I do like the looks of them though.

BearlyHere

$163 will be here this week.

Goldminers

@cagcrisp said:

Putting a $100 face value for a silver dollar would have no effect on seigniorage. It would put the Federal Reserve in a precarious position...

I think they are already in one.

scooter25

@BearlyHere said:
$163 will be here this week.

Do you get them early? How is this possible when mine isn’t even going to process until Feb 11 let along get to the grading company and returned .

BearlyHere

They lied...still no joy.

jmlanzaf

@Goldminers said:

@cagcrisp said:

@Goldminers said:
Will finish Type 1 designs and done with silver and gold eagles, The Mint no longer serves the public with fair pricing, it has in some ways become another overpriced TV show.

If there was some higher level of face value seigniorage it would help. A silver eagle is not worth one dollar, it should be $20 or so t, whicho be realistic. The 5 ounce ATB is a joke at 25 cents, and should be $100. The gold eagle should be $1,000 face and maybe there would be some more interest, as there is just too much downside using face values from basically 100 years ago.

There is no seigniorage on precious metals...in

Is there a law that prevents precious metals from seigniorage? There is even such a thing as negative seigniorage. The cent and nickel now have negative seigniorage as the cost to produce is now higher than their face value.

Obviously the government prefers positive seigniorage, and considers it as revenue.

If the Mint sells a 2021 silver dollar for $75, and it costs them $25 for the silver and another $25 to mint and distribute it, I think they do earn $25 in seigniorage, as revenue.

It is not being done, but if the Federal Reserve and Treasury would allow the legal tender silver dollar to state a face value of $100, it could have even more seigniorage. Every clad quarter we spend costs 5 cents to make, and yet it is worth 25 cents. I don't see the real difference if a silver dollar costs $50 to mint, and were to state a face value of $100.

Seigniorage is the difference between face value and costs, is it not? For bullion, which always has a face value below intrinsic value, the seigniorage would be negative.

They may book a profit, but they don't book any seigniorage. IMHO

cagcrisp

@jmlanzaf said:

@Goldminers said:

@cagcrisp said:

@Goldminers said:
Will finish Type 1 designs and done with silver and gold eagles, The Mint no longer serves the public with fair pricing, it has in some ways become another overpriced TV show.

If there was some higher level of face value seigniorage it would help. A silver eagle is not worth one dollar, it should be $20 or so t, whicho be realistic. The 5 ounce ATB is a joke at 25 cents, and should be $100. The gold eagle should be $1,000 face and maybe there would be some more interest, as there is just too much downside using face values from basically 100 years ago.

There is no seigniorage on precious metals...in

Is there a law that prevents precious metals from seigniorage? There is even such a thing as negative seigniorage. The cent and nickel now have negative seigniorage as the cost to produce is now higher than their face value.

Obviously the government prefers positive seigniorage, and considers it as revenue.

If the Mint sells a 2021 silver dollar for $75, and it costs them $25 for the silver and another $25 to mint and distribute it, I think they do earn $25 in seigniorage, as revenue.

It is not being done, but if the Federal Reserve and Treasury would allow the legal tender silver dollar to state a face value of $100, it could have even more seigniorage. Every clad quarter we spend costs 5 cents to make, and yet it is worth 25 cents. I don't see the real difference if a silver dollar costs $50 to mint, and were to state a face value of $100.

Seigniorage is the difference between face value and costs, is it not? For bullion, which always has a face value below intrinsic value, the seigniorage would be negative.

They may book a profit, but they don't book any seigniorage. IMHO

Seigniorage is the difference between face value and costs for circulating coinage. Circulating coinage is the key word. The Mint produces some products on the numismatic side they deem circulating coinage. That is the Only seigniorage that is reported on the numismatic side.

As far as bullion is concerned, there is no seigniorage reported because nothing is viewed as circulating coinage, everything goes to profit (gold/silver) or loss (platinum)...