Question for coin dealers
MKUltra24
Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
Hello friends!
I have a question for coin dealers on this forum. Or people very familiar with coin dealers.
Any input would be appreciated.
Is it OK to ask a coin dealer to keep an eye out for a coin that I have an interest in?
For example (just an example please no comments on the specifics!) let’s say I’m looking for a 1795 Flowing Hair Dollar in VF20 condition for under $3000.
Is it OK for me to ask a coin dealer to keep his eye out for one?
Or is it too much of a burden and I should focus on what he actually has in stock and if he doesn’t have what I want go to another dealer?
I feel like now that we live in an era of 24/7 worldwide internet access the job of a coin dealer is harder due to competition all over the World (or at least country) to sell for the lowest price.
Maybe coin dealers need to evolve into more of a “service” of catering to individual coin desires & wants similar to a concierge who gets tickets & reservations that others simply cannot. But that’s just me. I may be totally wrong.
Comments
they won't work for free
Yes. I find most dealers are approachable. Be kind.
What do you mean by "keep an eye out"? There's a difference between "Let me know if you happen to get one" and "Would you look for one for me".
Yes ask away. Who is to say there is not one in the back safe?
It’s been my observation that once you develop a good relationship with a dealer they are happy to keep an eye out for you because you’re a good customer. Some might do it in the hopes of establishing a good relationship as well.
Never hurts to ask. Good luck!
Well I mean I don’t expect anyone to work for free.
But using my last example let’s say I told a coin dealer I’m willing to pay up to $3K for a 1795 Flowing Hair Dollar.
Well if he/she sees one for $2500 that’s a potential $500 profit.
I’m not asking them to go out and search just for my coin. It’s more like just keeping an eye out in case a dealer happens to come across that coin so they know they have a buyer already and know what price the buyer is willing to pay.
Your the customer, let it be known what you are looking for. If they want your business they will find it for you. If they are not interested, move on. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Let me clarify:
When I say “keep an eye out” I just mean that if a dealer happens to come across that coin in their normal business. I know a lot of dealers go to coin shows and stuff.
I do NOT mean a coin dealer going out of his way just for me.
Just asking to keep in mind what I’m looking for and how much I’ll pay in case he/she happens to stumble upon one.
Well I mean I’m assuming that the dealer has already said they do not have that coin.
Like in my previous example would it be okay to say: “Hey I know you don’t have a 1795 FHD but if you happen to come across one at a coin show or something I’ll pay X amount of money for it in X grade.”
Then if they’re at a coin show or something and see one for a price they could make a decent profit on based on what I said I’d pay they can pick it up knowing they already have a buyer.
Like if I say I’m looking for a FHD in at least VG20 for $3000 or less and they find one for $2500 they can make a $500 profit on it.
Thanks!
I just moved so sadly I don’t have any sort of relationship with my local coin dealer where I live now.
But I was hoping maybe if I asked them to keep an eye out for a gold 8 escudo coin they would keep in mind that I’m looking for one and how much I’ll pay for it so if they happen to see one somewhere for less than the maximum I’m willing to pay they can pick it up and make a profit.
I’m always kind
.
Even to people who aren’t coin dealers!
If you haven’t established a solid relationship with the dealer, he doesn’t KNOW he has a buyer, if you’ll like the coin or what you’ll pay if you do like it. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try, though.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Dealers love it when they "have a place to go" with a coin, but your reliability as a buyer may be scrutinized.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
But when a dealer is first getting to know a buyer isn’t it possible for them to say “I know someone who is selling the coin you’re looking for. Once you give me the money I will go buy it for you.”?
That works pretty well at shows.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
I suggest you clarify the extent of your interest, so that both parties know what the expectations are. To a dealer, there is a difference between "if you get one I would like to get a look at it" and "if you get one I will definitely buy it". Let the dealer where you are on the continuum between these two endpoints, and both you and the dealer will benefit. For example, if you are in the "I would like to get a look at it" camp, maybe the dealer can get the coin on memo (loan) from the dealer who has the coin.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
That’s a good point.
Maybe it would make sense to ask the dealer to take some photos of the coin to show me and tell the seller they have a potential buyer?
It's called a "want list", and many dealers let (even encourage) you keep one on file with them. Keep in mind that if you don't actually purchase a located coin that supposedly fits your criteria from time to time, they're likely to stop looking for you.
MKUltra, ask yourself this --- if you were a Coin Dealer and someone you didn't know or was only a casual customer asked you to find him a $3,000 coin, would you do it?? you're asking a dealer to spend that kind of money for a coin he isn't guaranteed to have a buyer for.
another way to think of it --- would you give a dealer that you didn't know or were only vaguely familiar with that same $3,000 and tell them to see if they could find a specific coin for you, then settle for whatever it was they found??
I wouldn't do either if I was him or you.
Oh ok awesome!
Yeah I would never back out on a deal if I agreed to buy something.
However as someone else said it might be smarter to ask him to let me see the coin or pictures of the coin before the dealer actually buys it for me.
I wouldn’t want to agree to buy a coin only to get a really bad example of one.
Actually I would.
If the dealer said: “Listen I’ll keep an eye out for that coin for you and if I see it I’ll send you a text so you can Venmo or CashApp me the money.”
Or something like that.
Or the dealer could ask the person selling the coin I’m looking for to hold onto it for a day and ask me to come into the shop within 24 hours to pay for the coin so the dealer could go buy it without risking his/her own money.
Good thoughts here.
Using your example, I would probably ask this way;
I would really like to find a 1795 Flowing Hair Dollar in VF20. I'd like one that has x, y and z type characteristics. If you find one, please keep me in mind.
This should be enough. They may ask you some questions, including what you are thinking, price wise. If they find one, ask for pictures and discuss price. No promises need to be made.
Coin dealers often will sell other dealers inventory on a system of trust ... like Rich said "On Memo". Basically, they know you, they know the owner of the coin (another dealer), and so they offer it to you, having already agreed with the current owner on the price they are paying for it if you accept their offer for the coin.
I would say be ready to accept it if it is a good coin at a fair and reasonable price, and it was you hoped and asked for ... as I am sure if that happens, you will start to get preferred treatment from that dealer for the things you are seeking.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Thanks Todd!
I’m actually looking for an 8 Escudo gold coin of King Charles and I can’t seem to find the one I’m looking for anywhere!
I was hoping maybe if I asked a dealer they could help me find one for sale in XF-AU50 condition.
You generally never want to work with a dealer who expects you to buy coins sight-unseen, or has a "no returns" policy, which is essentially the same thing. You also don't want to be placing want lists with dealers who don't have a track record of handling "nice" coins, or who don't have similar tastes and standards to yours.
Most dealers won't buy a coin outright to send it to you on approval unless they want it for inventory in case you pass. It's best to discuss a particular dealer's policies with him/her prior to submitting your want list.
I have seen several dealers who accept "want" lists.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
This. Unless it's a coin I want in inventory at a price I want to pay, I'm not buying anything for someone I don't know. If I can get it on memo, maybe.
But it never hurts to ask. The dealer may already know where there is one.
Isn’t there a way, as a dealer, to take some pictures of the coin and send it to the potential buyer and then give him/her say 24 hours or something to show up at the shop and provide the dealer with the money so they can go buy it?
Most anything's possible, of course. Your scenario requires that the dealer who has the coin is willing to hold it for your dealer, awaiting your decision. As a general rule, the more complicated the deal, the less likely it's going to pan out.
Many dealers are willing to work with want lists, I procured a few of my Lincolns from a well known dealer in that series through the use of a want list. It will really help if you can provide as much detail on what you like or dislike about the coins you buy so the dealer can properly screen possible matches. For instance the dealer that helped me knew that I had a grade range and a "look" that I wanted, for instance in my case I hate spots and fingerprints and will decline 99% of the coins I see with those. Discussing these types of details will make the process better for both sides.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Yes. But then you are back to committing to buying virtually sight unseen.
Dealers "loan" coins to each other all the time if one of them feels like they have a customer. I'm more likely to do it, however, if it is a customer I have a track record with. I then know what they are likely to buy and that they will follow through.
Margins are thin on coins. If I get something on memo and you don't buy it, then I have to return it to the original owner. There is time and money involved.
There is no overestimating how important the relationship with the dealer is, especially when it comes to higher end coins.
But, again, it can't hurt to ask. Realistically, however, if you ask someone you don't regularly do business with, they will be polite but probably not spend 5 seconds looking for the coin.
Again, it is unlikely to work this way. If I have no relationship with you, there's too much risk involved in acquiring or even borrowing a coin when I don't know you are actually going to buy it.
I accept want lists. But, if I'm being honest, I delete 90% of them as soon as I get them. I keep the list for the people I know well. But you'd be surprised (or not) how many people will buy a $20 coin from me on eBay and then send me their want list. It's just not worth my time maintaining that database. Even if I find a $200 coin they want, I'm probably making $20 on it so it's not worth the time to maintain the database and send emails. Not to mention that I probably have to then field the offer of $150 for my $200 coin.
Seems like want lists are far less relevant for eBay sellers. I'd just send interested buyers instructions on how to set up alerts for when there's a match with one of your listings.
Well, they are trying to bypass eBay altogether.
Of course, they want the "10% discount" on the 9% I pay eBay/PayPal, so there's no benefit to me. LOL
And then, they'll want to pay through PayPal.
Probably.
My favorites are always the ones who will email me about a $50 AUCTION and tell me they will offer $40 BIN and "pay immediately". LOL. Like everyone else takes 3 months to pay on eBay. I sometimes have to bite my tongue to not give them a sarcastic explanation on how auction bidding works.
You could tell them they're too late- somebody else already offered you $30.
This has probably already been iterated but as a client, i try to make sure I’m ready to buy when I ask a dealer to be on the lookout for me so I don’t waste their time.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
The real lesson I’m getting from this thread is to establish that relationship and show yourself to be a good customer. The quicker and stronger that happens, the more likely you are to have luck on this coin and future ones.
At coin shows, I was frequently asked by dealers "What are you looking for?" If I were looking for something specific, I would tell them.... When they did not have it, I am sure they forgot me as soon as I left the table. Though that inquiry taught me to ask when searching for something... since often, examples were not on display, but 'behind the table'... Cheers, RickO
For a coin like that there might be several people in line ahead of you. Don't be offended if that's the case.
Collector, occasional seller
The 1795 Flowing Hair Dollar was just an example.
The real coin I’m looking for is a gold 8 Escudo coin of King Charles in XF-AU50 condition.
My favorite example of such a thing......
About 30 or 35 years ago, a kid came into my store looking at Indian cents. "I'm looking for an 1877. If you get one would you call me ?"....."I'll give you my number". He gets out his wallet and is fishing out a business card. It's for 'snow-shoveling', and has his phone number on there. I also see that he had a hundred dollar bill in there. So, I suspected he was serious. A few weeks later, I pick up a '77. I call him and he flies in and buys it. 35 years later, we're still friends......,
Several dealer websites gather want lists.
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
My tale of 4 dealers:
Once upon a time, there were 4 full-service coin shops in town. When I got back into coins as an adult, I started visiting them all. At the time, I was still in the "fill the blue book" phase.
I went to shop one and he was an ass. He asked me what I was interested in. I told him I was filling in dates and just wanted to browse buffs, Indians, etc. He told me he didn't have time to waste on my treasure hunt. I never went back.
I went to shop two and he was very nice. He had "sale boxes" that I could look through. He talked to me as I hunted. He would take 10% off of my purchase without my asking. I went there half a dozen times but then two things happened. First, he had some Indian fanams which he sold me for about 20% over spot. Next time I went in, he asked me what I found out about them. I told him they were 18th century. He got miffed and said, "I didn't know they were that old".
A couple weeks later, it was Christmas. I stopped in a couple days before and he took off more than the usual 10%. I figure, it's Christmas. I went back a week later and he said, "I figured it wrong, you owe me $6.50." Since he hadn't itemized, I don't know how he came up with that number. But I paid him, left and never went back.
When I went to shop 3, I was treated like a King. She let me visit for an hour, look through boxes of junk silver and common coins (Indians, Buffs, etc.) and I spent $50 or so. I started going twice per week. I gradually started spending more. When I started dealing part-time, she let me do purchase offers on appraisals for her so that I could set my own price. If she needed something, she'd ask if I had them in stock. I still miss her, they closed a decade ago.
When I went to the 4th shop, it was similar to shop 3. He was a little more temperamental, but he never rushed me, didn't care how much or little I would spend. He started finding things for me at shows. I always bought them when he brought them back without questioning the grade or price. If I had something to sell, he never questioned my grade.
When eBay started up, I started selling stuff for him on eBay and then taught him to do it. He would give me rolls of coins to search for varieties and we'd split whatever I found.
We started doing deals together. He would send me $50,000 in coins without paperwork and ask for an offer. I would wire him $25,000+ when he needed it to make a purchase as an interest free loan, also without paperwork. I miss him terribly as he died last year.
Moral of the story: There is absolutely NO SUBSTITUTE for having a good relationship with a dealer. With Dealer 3 and Dealer 4, we had mutual trust and respect. They would give me good prices because I was a trouble-free buyer and never tried to cheat them. If I found an error in one of thei items, I told them so they can fix it rather than try to rip them. If I told one of them to buy me a $25,000 coin at a show, sight unseen, they would have because they knew I'd buy it. And they knew I'd buy it because I trusted them not to try to bury me in a coin that wasn't all there for the grade.
Words the live by ... sometimes as collectors/dealers we tend to (or choose to) forget on the other side of the transaction is a person. And treating people with dignity and respect (which is not the same as "rolling over" during a deal) has value and builds relationships. You can still 'win' without extracting the most money or chiseling down to the lowest dollar.
Dealers: what you offer is optional, the world will function just fine without your business.
Collectors: your activity is optional, the world will function just fine without your business.
To have such "optionals" mesh and create and sustain an engaging hobby is worth celebrating.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
An anecdote:
I was going through boxes at a show one day looking for stuff to sell on eBay and came across a variety that wasn't identified. It was priced as a non-variety piece. The difference in price would be about $150-$200, I think. I told the dealer about it so he could figure a new price and said I'd still be interested, just let me know how much. He said something like "How about 10% off the marked price?" I asked him if he didn't want to reprice it and he told me "Somebody else could have bought it as-is for the marked price without telling me what he found. Why should I charge you more?" Over the years, I've bought a lot more from him and the prices are always more than fair. I realize that not everybody runs his business the same way and passing up a cherrypick opportunity may not always be the way to go, but I believe that in this case, passing up that cherrypick has profited me many multiples of what it would have gotten me.
Something I notice quite often on this message board is that a fair number of people have expectations that dealers "should" do this or "should" do that and are disappointed when they don't. What doesn't seem to be understood is that dealers are individuals, maybe moreso than lots of other businesspeople one regularly encounters. One of the attractions of going into the coin business is that you can do things the way you want to and don't have to answer to the corporate office. What this means is that there will be some dealers who are easy to work with and willing to spend time on you and others who will just brush you off. It's not personal, it's just the way they run their businesses. Accept that, and get on with finding the ones you like dealing with. Or not- your choice.
I have no problem keeping want list for material I typically carry in inventory.
But to pay x $ on the bourse in the belief the person will complete the deal on a big ticket item like that no. It would have to be something I would want for inventory anyway especially if deal right.
Their wanting you put item on want list and then actually following thru buying 2 different things.
Sometimes at a show a guy says he will buy something and wanting me to put it away for him. I may be willing to do that for 30-60 min but that’s it. In reality he is asking me to bench a player subject to his whim. I owe him nothing. I am the coach, it’s my team, I call the plays. My way or the highway.
If willing hold it I may tell him “I can put it away until 2pm (2 hr later) in my bank bag here.”
You could put a WTB ad in the BST as there are many dealers that are members here.
Collector
87 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 53 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Is it possible to give the dealer a deposit or something before he goes to a big show and ask him to buy X coin if he comes across it?
Let’s say I’m looking for an 8 Escudo King Charles gold coin in XF-AU condition and I’m willing to pay up to $2500.
Would it make sense to a dealer if I paid say a $1000 deposit and asked him to grab the coin if he sees it?
Then if for some reason I don’t buy it the dealer has both the coin and the $1,000 deposit and can easily get his money back by selling the coin for $1,000 less than what it’s worth since he has the deposit as well.