Which would you rather have

Vetter

Okay, quick question. 2 key date coins. Both same date and price. 1st one is an AG/G problem free with just honest wear. 2nd one is VF with a lot of detail but has been cleaned a long time ago. Not distracting but you can tell it’s been cleaned. Which would you want in your collection?

BryceM

It depends on the coins, but if a coin was visibly cleaned, it can’t be properly graded as a VF, right? VF details maybe.

MFeld

Based on the information provided, I’d take the first one. If I could tell that the second one had been cleaned, it would be distracting.

PerryHall

In an auction, I bet the VF with the "non distracting" cleaning would bring more money than the AG/G coin.

ricko

A final decision would have to be made in hand... However, just based on the above information, coin number one would be my choice. Cheers, RickO

Catbert

You’re asking what I would do.....ditch both and buy a great example of the design (as a type collector). I’m sure this isn’t the answer you were looking for.

MFeld

@PerryHall said:
In an auction, I bet the VF with the "non distracting" cleaning would bring more money than the AG/G coin.

That’s probably right, but would you automatically prefer the VF for that reason? The question was “Which would you want in your collection?”

PerryHall

@MFeld said:

@PerryHall said:
In an auction, I bet the VF with the "non distracting" cleaning would bring more money than the AG/G coin.

That’s probably right, but would you automatically prefer the VF for that reason? The question was “Which would you want in your collection?”

I'd have to see both coins but most likely the VF if the cleaning isn't too noticeable.

MFeld

@PerryHall said:

@MFeld said:

@PerryHall said:
In an auction, I bet the VF with the "non distracting" cleaning would bring more money than the AG/G coin.

That’s probably right, but would you automatically prefer the VF for that reason? The question was “Which would you want in your collection?”

I'd have to see both coins but most likely the VF if the cleaning isn't too noticeable.

I think that’s the crux of the matter. What’s too noticeable, distracting, unacceptable, etc., varies widely from one person to another.

coinkat

There are other factors to consider that only the collector asking the question can answer. How important is the series and completing the series to you? How often do you see the rare coin/key date that poses this dilemma? And when you see it, what is the overall look of the date and how does the cleaned VF fit into the surviving population?

My initial reaction would be to pass on both and wait for the right coin. While this is the easiest answer, it really depends on the coins, what they look like and how often they surface. It is very easy to preach this response without knowing what coins/dates/series are at stake.

jesbroken

How about an example. For both coins to be the same date, yet extreme differences in grade and still a key coins, I cannot imagine them being the same price level.
Now as to the imaginary question, if it was truly a cleaning not distracting, I would select the VF, although what is not distracting to one may be to another.
Jim

AlanLastufka

For my personal collection it would always be the best problem-free coin I can afford. So in this scenario I'd go for the AG/G problem free.

Tom147

As Coinkat said, personally I'd have to decide how it fits into the rest of my collection. Do I have other A, AG coins ? Or is the rest of the set VF and better ? And of course how noticeable is the cleaning ? Just not enough info to make a decision.

mirabela

Is it completely out of the question to hold out for a problem-free VG or Fine? Even if it takes a few years?

1630Boston

@MFeld said:
Based on the information provided, I’d take the first one. If I could tell that the second one had been cleaned, it would be distracting.

@ricko said:
A final decision would have to be made in hand... However, just based on the above information, coin number one would be my choice. Cheers, RickO

I agree

PerryHall

Bottom line is show me the coins and I'll give you a definite answer.

SimpleCollector

As most have said, probably not enough information to give you a clear straight forward answer. What I would say, is for me the simple answer would be whichever coin made me smile or feel good when I look at it. Or if they both make you smile, whichever one makes you smile more. I would also say that if the cleaning may bother you, my experience is the concern doesn’t diminish with time, it usually grows.

rec78

I would have to see the coins before I make that decision. Personally, I collect problem free coins for the most part, but, cleaning may or may not look offensive.

Elcontador

It depends on the series. Many lightly cleaned Bust Dollars are straight graded. I've seen at least 20 AUs graded this way. Would you prefer one of those to a worn, original AG-G coin of that series?

jmlanzaf

@Elcontador said:
It depends on the series. Many lightly cleaned Bust Dollars are straight graded. I've seen at least 20 AUs graded this way. Would you prefer one of those to a worn, original AG-G coin of that series?

This is probably the best answer so far.

Bust halves and dollars were pretty much all cleaned at one time. How offensive the evidence of the cleaning is runs the gamut of OMG! to "Really, that was cleaned?".

It also depends on composition. Dipped copper is a far different matter than dipped silver.

Is it dipped clean or polished clean? Are there hairlines?

PerryHall

@Elcontador said:
It depends on the series. Many lightly cleaned Bust Dollars are straight graded. I've seen at least 20 AUs graded this way. Would you prefer one of those to a worn, original AG-G coin of that series?

Good point. What if the lightly cleaned VF coin was a straight graded bust dollar in a top tier slab? Would you still take the completely original AG/G coin rather than the VF coin?

jmlanzaf

@PerryHall said:

@Elcontador said:
It depends on the series. Many lightly cleaned Bust Dollars are straight graded. I've seen at least 20 AUs graded this way. Would you prefer one of those to a worn, original AG-G coin of that series?

Good point. What if the lightly cleaned VF coin was a straight graded bust dollar in a top tier slab? Would you still take the completely original AG/G coin rather than the VF coin?

You could also buy the VF coin and wear it down to a solid Good.

braddick

I rarely disagree with Feld, and I am a lowball collector myself, yet would take a VF (old cleaning) coin over an AG if it is a key date.
I think of a 1916-D Mercury dime for example. I'd much rather have the VF over the problem-free AG.

fathom

I'm taking the VF cleaned if it has the eye appeal. Any series.

savitale

Save your money and buy a problem free coin you will like forever. It will cost you more to upgrade these later.

skier07

I’ll take a box of Cubans.

winesteven

I’m truly not trying to derail the thread, but if the VF had a CAC, to me (and many others) that means while it was obviously cleaned, at least it was done GENTLY ENOUGH to merit the CAC. While the majority of collectors would likely prefer the “original” AG/G coin, there’s a large silent group that would prefer the VF that better shows its natural luster for the grade, even though it had obviously been cleaned.