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Is Hoarding Bad for a Collection or the Hobby?
Zoins
Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
Virgil Brand had an amazing collection with multiples of rare pieces. He had the 1794 Plugged PCGS SP66 Dollar and the best Original 1804 Dollar (Class 1 PCGS PR68). He also had 6 of the 10 1884 Proof Trade Dollars and is the only collector to hold 2 Brasher Doubloons!
His provenance isn't given that much respect and many people view him as a "hoarder", though he took detailed notes on his coins.
Given how amazing his coins are, why is hoarding or having more than 1 of something considered bad? Should it be?
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Given how amazing his coins are, why is hoarding or having more than 1 of something considered bad?
I don't think it is.
Should it be?
I don't think it's anybody's business what people choose to include in their collections.
Interesting question. I'll wait to see what others around here say before I jump in. I don't want to step on any toes. Very good topic.
If you can afford to do so, and still collect quality coins, then by all means.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
With rare coins, if you hoard enough of them, you can manipulate the pop reports if you wanted to. Like break them out of their holders and submitting them multiple times to make the pop seem larger than it is and make the price go down. Then buy up more of them and then turn in all the grading certificates from the ones you cracked out and make the pop reports go down and the price would go up.
Not that this answers the op question, I just remember a discussion on this forum a long time ago and this possibility came up and I thought it was an interesting concept.
Mr_Spud
I would say no. Most collections are an accumulation which is a hoard of some kind. What hurts the hobby is counterfeiting, lack of ethics, and similar shenanigans.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Odd question.
As was said above, it's really nobody's business how or what others choose to collect. There's no particular reason a person can't buy every coin they can afford and melt them down. Would that be "bad?" Not legally. There's no particular moral reason that it would be bad either, as far as I can see. Certainly owning or "hoarding" coins is less problematic than destroying them.
Who draws the line between collecting and hoarding? Is there a penalty for crossing it? Who enforces that?
He also had 6 of the 10 1884 Proof Trade Dollars.
We strive to put the best sets that we can together. Many want a #1 set and work hard at it to do so.
Imagine if Virgil Brand had acquired all 10 known pieces of the 84 PTD. He could have had his own #1 thru #10 bests sets. LOL
Then there is Tommy Bolack who has tried to collect all of the Sacagawea / Native mule dollar coins.
I believe that he has 6 of the eleven known. He may have acquired more at this time but I am unsure of his latest count.
I do not consider people who set their goals to own all coins in a specific type "hoarders" but true perfectionists.
Here is a link to that story
https://www.pcgs.com/top100/coin6
Enjoy
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I don't think it's that odd.
Even Doug Winter indicates a negative connotation to hoarding and Brand's legacy.
https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/tag/Norweb+collection
Odd question, in the sense of "What are you going to do about it?"
If nothing, why bother thinking about it?
Because I'm thinking about it for things I can affect
I think hoarding is really bad only if taken to an unhealthy extreme, for example if it affects your ability to feed your family or have conventional relationships with other people. Aside from that it’s your right to hoard anything from wheat cents to 1804 dollars. I would prefer if people did not hoard very rare coins because it does prevent others from sharing in the joy of completing a set, but that’s just me.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Hoarding is bad if the extent of the hoard temporarily inflates prices and/or removes the availability of coins to collectors.
Example of bad hoarding https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11762691#Comment_11762691
The Terry Brand hoard of 1794 half dollars considerably inflated prices (at least 2x) for about 15 years and made it very difficult to obtain a scarce but not rare 1794 half dollar. Those who did buy them during the hoarding paid inflated prices and got burned when the hoard was dispersed in 2017-2019.
I had only one 1794 half dollar during the hoarding, I knew of the hoard and that prices were greatly inflated. I have since bought 5 die marriages of 1794 at less than half of the hoard prices. Example: 1794 T-10/O.103 sold for $11,750 in 2014 at Stack's, I bought at $5,160 on 4-23-2020 at Heritage. Someone got burned big time from the hoarding.
Brand was a dream buyer for dealers as he bought all 1794 half dollars including severe problem coins, with no returns at high prices, and dealers gladly funneled 1794 half dollars to him through the wholesale market and from auctions. Not so good for collectors who wanted one example of 1794 DM.
I hope not. looks around nervously
as to his provenance and a perceived lack of respect wait until someone decides to market his coins they bought at a discount suddenly all such "hoarding" will be downplayed and minimized .
That might be hard to do. Many of his coins are sold for huge premiums while highlighting other provenances for the coins
But it would be nice to add his provenance to some of the lesser known coins.
just because I seem paranoid doesn't mean you aint all after me
Anyone running him down as a hoarder is probably jealous of his collection
Hoarding can hurt the interest in certain series by running up the cost of completing the series and causing collectors to lose interest as a result.
As an example:
Liberty Seated coins that are perceived as scarce or rare dates (or even high circulated grades of common dates) have been the subject of hoarding for many decades. Forty years ago you could go to local shows and have a decent chance of finding some better date Liberty Seated coins in dealer stocks. Today just about all you see are the most common dates in lower circulated grades or damaged/cleaned. There are probably many, many different hoards of these coins out there. Most will probably stay intact until the hoarders pass from the scene.
I look for Liberty Seated Dollars and there are a decent number of high grade coins out there, on eBay.
Search "Struck Thru Cloth" in error coins on eBay
Are you saying they are all in the EOC Collection
The real ones, all certified
For some reason I am reminded of the phrase "The more the merrier".
I like to hoard Liberty Seated Dollars.
I'm a hoarder, and have 2 and 3 of the same coin.
The only one who thinks I'm a nut is my wife.
Collecting is not far off from hoarding. But can understand how hoarding drops interest in collecting a series. Is not far off from what Hansen is seemingly doing in pushing to be #1 in every series. Really not interested in a series that Hansen is in.
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
Hoarding is bad if the hoarder is intentionally trying to manipulate the market. Otherwise I don’t find it problematic or negative.
Over on the sports card page, there are a few people running down numbered limited edition cards and trying to get all of them of the same card (I.e if it is limited to 25, trying to get all 25). To me this would be an amazing feat since so many are either in unopened packs or in private hands. I think one person is up to 18/25.
Because it’s a discussion forum??
No worries. I can see how a “hoarder” might bother others. I can also see how his actions could cause prices to rise and buying opportunities to fall. The opposite will likely happen when the hoard is eventually dispersed. Whether that’s good or bad depends on if you’re an eager buyer or a willing seller.
Does anybody really think that those who try to collect all of a particular coin type are in it for the money?
When one has the deepest pockets and $$$ to spend, to me it is about prestige and not resale value. This may be their "epitaph" to be remembered by. Even Hansen must sell or pass collections on and then it is up to the "heirs" to continue or sell. All of my sets will be passed on and are not for sale. IMO, I think that only dealers and not collectors are in it for the $$$ and procession of a particular coin. I see many deep pocket dealers on this forum who are trying to corral the market in a particular coin so they can "control" the market and sell at the highest profit. Will you sell that premium set or pass it on?
Are you a dealer or a collector? If you are a "hoarder", let me know why.
Thanks
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
It’s really a mental disorder. If I have one brass tool check, I need 50. If I have one miners lamp, I need 10. If I have 1 Green River Whiskey token, I’ll be getting a sheet of 20. 1 1911 then 12....and that’s just the tip of it. I guess I collect collections and though that may be better than a trash hoarder it’s really not fun struggling to let any one little thing go.
But what about 20 of each variety
Lol. I’m working on that! I’ve been trying to decide for myself how many varieties I can personally identify.
I’m up for a few favorite issues in different grades, toning or metal types, after that, I’m not tying up money.
Hoarding of the Low pop, high dollar coins ? I can't say as I'm not allowed in that end of the pool. I do have many multiples of coins that I like but certainly not enough to affect the market. It's been said on this forum before " collect what YOU like " and if that's several of the same date m/m so be it. I don't consider myself a hoarder but I am a collector.
I don't know if it's bad for the hobby or not, but
STAY AWAY FROM MY 1827 HALVES!
I collect/accumulate what I like.... Not interested in what label may be assigned. My stuff, my business.
Cheers, RickO
Your stuff is to well organized to be a hoarder. lol
some very interesting stuff
Like the "Gold Cup"
Kennedys are my quest...